Nervous?

[whole diary]

[Red Squirrel]

It is arguable that the West Country suffered disproportionately under the Marples/Castle axe, with vast areas wiped off the rail map in just a few short years.

50 years on, the tide is without doubt turning; in London there are very few axed lines left that have not been successfully reopened, and with Crossrail under construction minds have already turned to Crossrail 2. But here in the West Country our aspirations have so far been limited to expanding existing capacity (such as the Cotswold redoubling and, hopefully, the re-quadrification of Ashley Bank), and small-scale re-openings such as Portishead and Tavistock.

Many of the lines that were closed will never reopen, but without doubt some of them should never have closed. So assuming the Greater Bristol Metro succeeds, and Tavistock goes ahead, what^s the next priority for re-opening?

• Wells and Glastonbury, with their combined population of 20,000?
• Clevedon, with 21,000 people?
• Or the dozen or so seaside towns that are crying out to be reconnected?

Which of these has the best business case?

If your house was built on the trackbed of a dismantled railway line, would you be getting nervous?

[John R]

I used to live exactly on the track of a disused line that is under consideration for reopening, in Sandy, being on the Bedford to Sandy line, part of East-West rail hopefully. However, given the estate had been built further out, the proposal even 20 years ago was to reroute the line around the north of the town. Since then a further two developments mean that reinstatement will need to go an even longer way round, which shows that rarely will developers take account of a possible reopening which might take 20 years and might not happen at all.

So I wouldn't be nervous at all. And after all, the worst that can happen is a CPO with market value paid for the house, so you're then a cash buyer and in a good place to bargain hard on a replacement home.

[Electric train]

The old alinement's and routes are perhaps not the best choice today, a HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) type approach is possibly the best look at where you want the railway to call and build the route to suit that, we have technology available to use that the likes of Brunel and Stevenson could only dream of to build a railway.

So if you are serious about connecting or reconnecting a town look for the best available route 

[grahame]

[

The old alinement's and routes are perhaps not the best choice today, ...

I was writing along similar (new) lines ...

The current railways - and those closed half a century ago too - are largely on Victorian alignments, providing for traffic flows between places which were substantial in 1850 terms, using technology that was around 150 years ago - so that's straight and flat.  But look at some more modern sections such as the first few miles out of St. Pancras towards Ashford, and you'll find sharper corners and what would have been regarded as fearsome gradients. For new lines, the look should be at 21st century populations, 21st century traffic flows, and 21st century technologies whether that's HS3 (St Pancras International to Padstow) or the Bristol Coastal (Bristol via the south side of the Floating Harbour to Portishead, Clevedon and Weston which will be a tram train.  Only in parts will they follow / make use of the old routes, and at times it'll not be the 1960s-closed woutes but much older ones they roughly follow.

[Btline]

I don't think smaller schemes are likely to go ahead I'm afraid.
These days, everything has to have a business case et al and a local railway rarely performs well.

Bigger schemes such as HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) and Crossrail are pushed through as big bucks projects for the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).

I could be wrong.

[Red Squirrel]

The current railways - and those closed half a century ago too - are largely on Victorian alignments, providing for traffic flows between places which were substantial in 1850 terms, using technology that was around 150 years ago

I agree up to a point, but for the same reason as chunks of railway alignment have been gobbled up for road by-passes, so re-opened routes will in many cases find that the Victorian alignment is a very good starting point. Obviously high-speed connections are different (HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) will not and could not follow the Great Central route for much of the way) but I'm talking here about local reconnections.

For example, if you were planning to get Wells and Glastonbury back on the map you'd almost certainly look at a route more or less following the Somerset and Dorset line from Glastonbury to Wells, and then via the East Somerset to Witham (handily picking up Shepton Mallet's 10,000 lucky souls on the way). A quick squizz at this route on Google Maps suggests that the only area that would present a problem would be Wells, where you'd probably have to skirt south of the A39 and A371. My point is that the old alignments plug rather neatly into the rest of the network; the example I've given could (with main line capacity improvements) give onward connections to London, Bath or - hey - Melksham.

[JayMac]

Bath and North East Somerset have just green-lighted housing development over the extant trackbed in Radstock, killing off any hope of rail returning to that growing town on the existing alignment. A new road is also being built which lessens the chance of trains returning to Radstock even further.

[Red Squirrel]

Bath and North East Somerset have just green-lighted housing development over the extant trackbed in Radstock, killing off any hope of rail returning to that growing town on the existing alignment. A new road is also being built which lessens the chance of trains returning to Radstock even further.

This is a different line, of course, but I'm sure I saw the phrase 'passive provision' somewhere in among the bumf for this scheme. It does however introduce the requirement for a road/rail crossing, with all the problems that entails.

[grahame]

Not sure if I would want to buy a house on the land released here ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-22607579?

Plans to restore a railway line, closed in the 1960s, have been dealt a "devastating blow", according to campaigners.

East Riding of Yorkshire Council has confirmed it will no longer protect the route of the Beverley to York line from housing development.

and

John Craig, from the strategic planning team at the Conservative-run East Riding Council, said if the investment was available then the council would support the proposal to restore the line.

He added: "We are fairly confident the route can still be delivered in the long-term. Most of it would run through open countryside and the local plan doesn't seek to promote significant development in the open countryside."

[Red Squirrel]

Not sure if I would want to buy a house on the land released here ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-22607579?

Plans to restore a railway line, closed in the 1960s, have been dealt a "devastating blow", according to campaigners.

East Riding of Yorkshire Council has confirmed it will no longer protect the route of the Beverley to York line from housing development.

and

John Craig, from the strategic planning team at the Conservative-run East Riding Council, said if the investment was available then the council would support the proposal to restore the line.

He added: "We are fairly confident the route can still be delivered in the long-term. Most of it would run through open countryside and the local plan doesn't seek to promote significant development in the open countryside."

Not a scheme I was aware of. It does seem perverse to allow building on any route where there is the slightest chance of re-opening. The comment that

Most of it would run through open countryside and the local plan doesn't seek to promote significant development in the open countryside

sounds almost comical, given that it's the routes through towns that tend to be most problematic.

However this scheme has all the hallmarks of a non-starter to me:

1. It connects two places that are already connected;
2. It doesn't pass through any major centres of population;
3. The trackbed in Market Weighton and Pocklington has been well and truly build upon;
4. It has been endorsed by Lord Prescott of Wossee-Onabout.

I think I'd be more nervous if I lived in Clay Bottom.

[TonyK]

A few years ago, I went to see a house in Clay Bottom with a view to investment rather than residence. It wasn't the fear of railway rebuild that stopped me, but fear of the house tumbling down without assistance. We settled for somewhere else right by the now cycle track in Fishponds, from where I one day hope to see tram-trains passing by.

Closer to my present home is the disused rail alignment beginning at Bloomfield Road, by Sainsbury, crossing under Sandy Park Road and the A4 Bath Road, through what was Brislington Station, still has a platform but now covered in scrap metal, to a putative exit between Tesco and Callington Road Hospital.This is currently reserved for future use as a road of some sort, referred to as the Callington Road Link . It has been given the full Atkins treatment, looking at time savings of a few seconds into a city that may have a congestion charge, then multiplying these savings by a factor of 60 years, to arrive at a Benefit / Cost Ratio. This precision tool uses the 2006 forecast of traffic in 2031, then extrapolates that as far as 2066. A new road for general traffic was due to have been completed along the alignment by 2015, but further consideration has been put off to at least 2017. It is too narrow for anything other than a two-way single carriageway over the whole length - anything else would require expensive widening of two bridges and several sections of cutting. So I would use it as a tram-train route.

The intention would be to link into the railway and the new tramway around the city centre and Cabot Circus. From the new transport hub at Plot 6, it would climb a single track incline at the westernmost side of the bridge over the city dock Avon, crossing the railway parallel to St Philips Causeway before descending to run alongside the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), along what is currently a siding. It would leave the present railway via Avonmeads, running on street before crossing the original Avon via a new third deck to the bridge, then passing Sainsbury on street before becoming segregated through what is now a council depot. I would have a stop just south of Sandy Park Road, and another somewhere around the former station, then again by Tesco. From there, we would go back to on-street running across Wells Road, down Airport Road, thence by whatever practical route - there are several options - to Hartcliffe, then Withywood. The approach would be incremental, each extension proving the case for the next. My eventual aim would be to continue on street to the A38, then to rejoin the railway somewhere around Parsons Street. With that in place, I would build on to the airport, and look at spurs into Whitchuchrch and Stockwood, possibly Long Ashton and the Park and Ride. The whole first stretch to Withywood could be done with less than 10 miles of track, with as little as 3 miles on street. For that, a significant part of south Bristol would be connected by fast high volume vehicles to Temple Meads and the city centre, and beyond.

Alas, with Atkins calling the shots, it can never happen.

[Red Squirrel]

I'd go further than FTN. The Halcrow report mentions the B&NS route in its discussion of Radstock, though sadly only to dismiss it as "substantially built over". It's actually much less built upon than you might think - there's a missing section of embankment where the oddly-named Hither Bath Bridge has been built, but other than that the only major obstacle I can spot is at Whitchurch; after that it would mostly require a couple of Bluebell-style rubbish tip removals and a few bridge replacements to get all the way to Radstock and then Frome (via the lost chord).

Connecting to Midsomer Norton and Radstock in this way would put 15,000 people back on the rail map, plus another 5000 at Paulton and a couple of thousand more at Clutton and Pensford, before hitting a potential P&R^▸ (Park and Ride) at Whitchurch and a local station in Brislington. The through connection to Frome could be a good diversionary route too.

[TonyK]

Sounds like time to dig out my old Moody Blues albums!

Whitchurch and Hither BB would not necessarily be huge problems, with a bit of good creative design and engineering. This is, sadly, Bristol.

[Red Squirrel]

Sounds like time to dig out my old Moody Blues albums!

Are you thinking of Days of Future Passed, or To Our Children's Children's Children?

Edit: Ah, I missed the reference to the lost chord. I always think of the Dame Clara Butt version, which I have on a single-sided 78.

[TonyK]

Are you thinking of Days of Future Passed, or To Our Children's Children's Children?

Edit: Ah, I missed the reference to the lost chord. I always think of the Dame Clara Butt version, which I have on a single-sided 78.

Blimey! I'll wind up the gramaphone ready! The earlier reference was indeed to "In Search of the Lost Chord" - well spotted! Every good boy deserves Four Track, Now!