Cotswold line timetable - not fit for purpose.

[whole diary]

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

My understanding is that the present peak hour CL HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services will be formed of double 5 car bi-mode SETs^▸ (Super Express Train (now IET)) that should cope with at least some fo the CL passenger growth. It will mean that most CL platforms will need lengthening and I understand that at platforms such as Hanborough, the existing platform will be extended from 2/3 coach length to 6 coach length and that when a 10 car bi-mode calls, it would stop with the rear part of the front half and the front part of the rear half on the platform. Additional line capacity should become available with the recast of the whole GW^▸ (Great Western) timetable necessary for the SETs to provide faster or, probably more appropriate, better acceleration than HSTs. Off-peak it has been mentioned that CL services will be formed of single 5 car bi-mode SETs that in many cases will be detached from a double bi-mode at Oxford. I wonder what would become of the existing Adelante trains. they would be fine for some of the far west services provided there are too many stops in service that the Adelantes were not designed for.

[Rhydgaled]

My understanding is that the present peak hour CL HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services will be formed of double 5 car bi-mode SETs^▸ (Super Express Train (now IET)) that should cope with at least some fo the CL passenger growth.

...

Off-peak it has been mentioned that CL services will be formed of single 5 car bi-mode SETs that in many cases will be detached from a double bi-mode at Oxford.

If I've estimated the diagrams correctly though, if the hourly Worcester services are all 10-car to Oxford there won't be enough units to run peak services 10-car further from London. Unless the acceleration boost from the IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) is so huge the journey time reductions accross the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) will save alot of diagrams of course. Also, I know it happens elsewhere but I still don't think portion working is a good idea unless the trains used have Unit-End-Gangways, which IEP trains can't and won't.

I wonder what would become of the existing Adelante trains. they would be fine for some of the far west services provided there are too many stops in service that the Adelantes were not designed for.

Cardiff - Portsmouth? 180s would be a more-suitable for that route than 166s or 165s in my opinion, although 4-car 158s or a bi-mode version of a Wessex Electric (5-WES) or class 444 would be even better.

[paul7575]

The Adelantes are already booked to go to Grand Central, according to the latter's various long term track access applications, in which they refer to a full fleet of 180s, with their use of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) ending in 2018.

The inference is that they mustn't be considered assets of the GW^▸ (Great Western) franchise area...

Paul

[Southern Stag]

Don't forget that Hull Trains are another potential source of 180s as it looks likely the line to Hull will be electrified.

[paul7575]

Yes, but other sources have also proposed that GC^» (Great Central Railway - link to heritage line) would want the whole class, as they have all sorts of track access bids in for additional services, so it isn't simply a case of using 180s to replace their short HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) 'one for one'...

Paul

[Southern Stag]

From what I remember all the current track access bids for new Open Access services are from Alliance Rail Holdings who have a variety of different rolling stock plans, including new Alstom Pendolinos and Hitachi SETs^▸ (Super Express Train (now IET)).

[ChrisB]

I suspect that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) has higher priority call on rolling stock - if they design a franchise that includes them, I suspect OPen Access operators wouldn't get a look in.

Have GC^» (Great Central Railway - link to heritage line) got a contract with the lessors yet? I doubt it....

[Southern Stag]

No, but FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s lease on the 180s expires in December 2016 and in April's Modern Railways it was stated that Grand Central have an option on the 180s if FGW is not allowed to extend the lease. Elsewhere it has been suggested that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) haven't shown any intentions of extending the lease on the 180s yet. This came up in an article discussing the TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) 170s, suggesting that there could be a similar situation with the 180s.

[ChrisB]

If the 5 year Direct Award is approved/issued, I strongly suspect FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will want these beyond that date as the electrification won't be complete then.

[paul7575]

From what I remember all the current track access bids for new Open Access services are from Alliance Rail Holdings who have a variety of different rolling stock plans, including new Alstom Pendolinos and Hitachi SETs^▸ (Super Express Train (now IET)).

I wasn't going to offer an opinion on the likelihood of GC^» (Great Central Railway - link to heritage line)'s applications ever being approved, but on the other hand I don't quite see them as big players in the new train market...

Paul

[Southern Stag]

If the 5 year Direct Award is approved/issued, I strongly suspect FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will want these beyond that date as the electrification won't be complete then.

Yes but FTPE^» (First TransPennine Express - website) would quite like to keep their 170s after next year as their electrification won't be complete by then.

[ChrisB]

That's a case of one franchise contracting snother franchise's stock - the latterawaiting confirmation of a Direct award when stock leases were dxpiring at same time as their franchise.

Slightly different here - open access v franchise & stock lease expiring after end if current Direct Award

[Southern Stag]

Yes, but it has been suggested that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have as of yet shown no indications that they want to fund an extension on the lease of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) 180s. It's very similar to the FTPE^» (First TransPennine Express - website) 170s, FTPE wanted to extend the lease but the DfT weren't interested. They knew that Chiltern were taking up the lease on them.

[ChrisB]

That's incorrect from comments i've heard from reliable sources. TOPE were unable to extend their lease as the DdT dragged their feet in the Direct Award.

[CLPGMS]

That's incorrect from comments i've heard from reliable sources. TOPE were unable to extend their lease as the DdT dragged their feet in the Direct Award.

I am completely baffled.
What is TOPE?
I thought that DdT was something we used at one time to kill flies.
What is all this doing under the heading of the Cotswold Line Timetable, anyway?

I would also ask the question that if the Cotswold Line Timetable is "not fit for purpose", why are passenger numbers growing so fast on the line now?