That MTLS lot are at it again

[whole diary]

[Lee]

Genuine question for you, 12hoursunday, so dont bite my head off :

I notice from your profile that your website is listed as "rmt union." In the past the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) has been very supportive of MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain) and their aims.

Are your views purely personal, or do they reflect official RMT policy?

By the way, dont take me asking as a criticism of the union or its views. I regularly include links to the RMT Bristol Rail Branch website (along with links to many other groups/organisations), as part of our attempts to provide a balanced cross-section of views.

[Shazz]

I doubt FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are going to issue platform tickets if they know whats going to happen

[12hoursunday]

Lee 
The postings I post are the views of myself however there have been others on here that I think feel the same or have similar views to mine Your right it what you say re the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) and their association with MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain) however I am unsure if they have or would support the breaking of the law. Whether your the jumped little hoodie sneaking a ride from Oldfield Park to Keynsham or a group of grown up's frustrated over what has become of British Railways ( it ain't only happening in this neck of the woods you know) it is unlawful to a travel or attempt to travel on the railway network without buying a ticket. Doing so only puts futher pressure on the rail staff you say you support and feel sorry for.

MTLS should should take a long look at what they intend to do to try to make train companies change their minds or maybe even influence them into making changes into what they do now, they are acting in a  unprofessional and irresponsible manner by asking passengers to break the law on-mass. Someone may end up with egg on their chin, and it won't be Firstgroup!

[grahame]

This is following up on earlier posts, not the very latest exchange. As you can imagine, it's taken a bit of a while to prepare!

Some of you old hands may find this a bit of a "repeat" from me - but we have many new users here (to whom I extend the very warmest of welcomes) who may wish to hear my view on Fare Strikes as the administaror of the board.  And I'll take the opportinity to fill a few other things in, in context, too.

If a safe, reliable, comfortable, low cost, fast, clean train service, which ran at times when we all wanted to travel, with a clear system of ticketing and easily accessible information, with excellent road interchange was provided, allowing us to travel from Paddington to Windsor, from Paignton to Copplestone, from Great Malvern to London, from Chippenham to Salisbury and from Melksham to Oxford when we wanted, a forum like this would be a truely quiet place and perhaps it wouldn't exist at all. But the fact that I, as a private individual, raised 1700 signatures including 8 MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament), 5 MEPs^▸ (Member of European Parliament), countless councillors .... for a petition calling for an appropriate train service from Westbury to Swindon and on other illogically slashed services (be it in number of trains, schedule, or capacity) indicated that all is not well - from the point of view of the passenger - in some parts of First's empire.  Thus, this site.

And it's not here to slag off, to critisize for the sake of it, or to moan.  Those things will occur - and perhaps they're the first necessary step in identifying a problem to look to doing something about it. 

Some matters - informational matters such as ticket availablilty, how weekend first works, where to see interesting train formations, we as passengers can help each other.  A question asked, views and answers given, and a matter resolved. But other matters aren't within the remit of the passenger to deal with. 

Even with the help of other passengers, we can't simply club together and buy or lease ourselves a "153" and run it up and down between Chippenham and Salisbury every 2 hours.  So that's where we need to constructively engage the Train Operator, the Franchise awarder, the local transport authorities who are at the front line of that provision, and a huge raft of other influencers and interested parties ranging from Network rail to our MPs, and from the Press to Passenger Focus.  In these cases, the forum is useful to discuss the most effective way to make such approaches and to have the case heard, seriously considered, and have sensible conclusions reached.

There is no perfect approach. "Meek and Mild" has been tried. The result is along the lines of "never mind the people of Melksham - they'll put up with crap and not complain" which leads to people in my home town being walked all over. Just two trains a day - at 06:18 and 18:45 from our main centre - and a population of 24,000 is absurd. And the bus alternative takes 95 minutes versus 25, with changes necessary on the way too.

My own approach is "Constructive engagement" - looking to work with people within the current system (all be it pointing out the inadequacies of the system from time to time) with an eye to reaching and retaining the desired target.  At times I'm not sure how it's working - someone copied an email to me just the other day that talked about a "cunning plan" from one of the main players, and I'm hoping that the cunning plan is NOT to spend so long discussing things that - oops - another deadline has been missed.  "Constructive engagement" needs, to some extend, some teeth - it can't be "Meek and Mild".

More provocative approaches may be tried ... although they may tend to antagonise the very people who have to be on board at the end of the day.  I'm personally not averse to, on occasions, doing something to embarrass people (and, yes, I have been known to do so) but it must be done in such a way that they know why I am doing it.  I will stop short of doing anything which I know to be illegal, or I suspect may be illegal, or to encourage others to do so.

I have to take my hat off and salute the people who HAVE taken the more provocative approaches, and to congratulate them on publicity whihc has helped us all - and in some cases has helped their case to be heard loudly to the near-exclusion of ours on the TransWilts.   Just ONE of the extra coaches that First added to trains to ease overcrowding could have been used to provide a service on the TransWilts that would have provided rather more that merely eased a squeeze or saved a further 30 minutes wait for the next train. Our gap is 12 HOURS between trains!  However - there SHOULD be room for all of us, and I have no desire what so ever to say "take that train away from X and give it to me".  To suggest that there aren't trains available for lease is a convenient falasy - the two extra 150 units that arrived recently actually caused accountant-type questions in FGW^▸ (First Great Western) I'm told, and there are perhaps other 142s and certainly 180s that could feed a cascade.

Now some specifics for the forum. We have a whole load of constraints on us - ranging from copyright, discrimination through decency, libel and slander to consider as we moderate the boards.  We also have to consider carefully any posts which could be seen as attacking people personally or inciting others to break that law.  Whilst we can't be responsible for a post as it is being made, we can (and do) take reasonable steps to remove posts that contravene these legal matters quite quickly, and if we failed to do so there would be a responsibility on us too.  Myself and the other moderators are, of course, far more aware of the details of these various issues and we also talk amongst oursleves to give a correct and clear response as necessary.  Such responses, though, are sympathetic - we will not delete a post without comment or explanation, especially from an established poster, but rather will ask for it to be modified and explain why that needs to be done.  After all - we very much want to keep everyone on board, and provide a forum to help us push for a situation where we do ourselves out of a job. That means  a safe, reliable, comfortable, low cost, fast, clean train service, which ran at times when we all wanted to travel, with a clear system of ticketing and easily accessible information, with excellent interchange ...

[swlines]

I doubt FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are going to issue platform tickets if they know whats going to happen

Rail companies are required to issue tickets that exist when are request to do so - no questions asked.

[vacman]

I doubt FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are going to issue platform tickets if they know whats going to happen

Rail companies are required to issue tickets that exist when are request to do so - no questions asked.

If someone buys a platform ticket to get through the barrier then the offence has been committed, i'll bet plain clothes RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))'s will be out and about on that day!

[swlines]

Erm - not really .... if someone doesn't travel then a platform ticket is still required to get through the barrier....

[vacman]

Erm - not really .... if someone doesn't travel then a platform ticket is still required to get through the barrier....

If the "intent" was there to buy a platform ticket to gain access to a train then an offence has been committed, "intent" is the golden word and if FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can prove that intent then thats fare evasion, the "suspect" is decieving the barrier staff by doing so and thus obtaining services by deception! 

[swlines]

Very very true

[dog box]

spoke to an RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) Today who was on the platform at Southall who was on his way to BATH SPA of all places

[Tim]

I won't participate in a fare strike myself and I understand that is would be against the law and that those who do take part run a risk of being prosecuted and if they are they only have themselves to blame, but I really can't understand the hatred that some of the railway professionals appear to have against the MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain) fare strike.  You guys do seem to take the whole idea of travel without a ticket (which I agree is illegal and should not be encouraged) very personally. 

I am not sure that I fully understand why. 

The strike is an attack on the company FGW^▸ (First Great Western) not individual RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)), drivers, platform staff or guards and many of you show little sympathy with FGW on other matters.  Some of you have critisiced them on this forum and some of you are members of unions which have called for FGW to be stripped of their franchise.  Why are you so strongly behind your company on this issue over all others?  Has FGW indoctrinated you against MTLS?   Did terrible things happen to you at the last strike?  Are you in fear for your safety? 

For those of you working during the strike, it might not be a typcial day, but I don't think that you will be personally threatened or physically abused and it might even be more intersteresting day than the normal routine. 

Genuine questions.  I think that there is something about the fare strike that has really caught a nerve and I am not sure what it is.

[vacman]

I won't participate in a fare strike myself and I understand that is would be against the law and that those who do take part run a risk of being prosecuted and if they are they only have themselves to blame, but I really can't understand the hatred that some of the railway professionals appear to have against the MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain) fare strike.  You guys do seem to take the whole idea of travel without a ticket (which I agree is illegal and should not be encouraged) very personally. 

I am not sure that I fully understand why. 

The strike is an attack on the company FGW^▸ (First Great Western) not individual RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)), drivers, platform staff or guards and many of you show little sympathy with FGW on other matters.  Some of you have critisiced them on this forum and some of you are members of unions which have called for FGW to be stripped of their franchise.  Why are you so strongly behind your company on this issue over all others?  Has FGW indoctrinated you against MTLS?   Did terrible things happen to you at the last strike?  Are you in fear for your safety? 

For those of you working during the strike, it might not be a typcial day, but I don't think that you will be personally threatened or physically abused and it might even be more intersteresting day than the normal routine. 

Genuine questions.  I think that there is something about the fare strike that has really caught a nerve and I am not sure what it is.

You will find that most people who work on the railway are a special breed (myself included) who are passionate about the RAILWAY in general, OK FGW might not be perfect BUT it's our job and we will always try to carry out our job to the highest standard, at the end of the day most railway workers are on good money and it's FGW that pay the mortgage and the bills. Also I believe that the MTLS are going the wrong way about taking action, and to be honest, it's a waste of time and effort, haven't they got anything more productive to do with their spare time, like go to the pub? watch some paint dry?

[Jim]

 You guys do seem to take the whole idea of travel without a ticket (which I agree is illegal and should not be encouraged) very personally. 

So, what type of 'fare strike' are they planning then, if it's not traveling without a ticket?

[swlines]

Buying a 100% valid ticket for your journey that costs less than it should?

Like a FOSS^▸ (Freedom of Severn & Solent Rover) for a Bomo - Cardiff return for example!

[Tim]

I won't participate in a fare strike myself and I understand that is would be against the law and that those who do take part run a risk of being prosecuted and if they are they only have themselves to blame, but I really can't understand the hatred that some of the railway professionals appear to have against the MTLS^▸ (More Train Less Strain) fare strike.  You guys do seem to take the whole idea of travel without a ticket (which I agree is illegal and should not be encouraged) very personally. 

I am not sure that I fully understand why. 

The strike is an attack on the company FGW^▸ (First Great Western) not individual RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)), drivers, platform staff or guards and many of you show little sympathy with FGW on other matters.  Some of you have critisiced them on this forum and some of you are members of unions which have called for FGW to be stripped of their franchise.  Why are you so strongly behind your company on this issue over all others?  Has FGW indoctrinated you against MTLS?   Did terrible things happen to you at the last strike?  Are you in fear for your safety? 

For those of you working during the strike, it might not be a typcial day, but I don't think that you will be personally threatened or physically abused and it might even be more intersteresting day than the normal routine. 

Genuine questions.  I think that there is something about the fare strike that has really caught a nerve and I am not sure what it is.

You will find that most people who work on the railway are a special breed (myself included) who are passionate about the RAILWAY in general, OK FGW might not be perfect BUT it's our job and we will always try to carry out our job to the highest standard, at the end of the day most railway workers are on good money and it's FGW that pay the mortgage and the bills. Also I believe that the MTLS are going the wrong way about taking action, and to be honest, it's a waste of time and effort, haven't they got anything more productive to do with their spare time, like go to the pub? watch some paint dry?

Thanks for the answer.  I agree that you are a special breed (which is a good thing).  So I guess you take it personally because to you it is personal (because of the loyalty you have to your railway), but I am still not convinced that your mortgage payments are at risk because of lost revenue (at the last strike most people had some kind of ticket or season ticket and the main damage to FGW was the bad publicity rather than lost fares - bad publicity can be good if it gets things improve and you caould argue that some of the attempted improvements we have seen recently are a response to the publicity?) Many of your passengers, myself included,  have a personal attachment and loyalty to our railway too but it makes me angry that that loyalty is abused by masive fare increases, a worstening service and profiteering private companies.  People like Tony Ambrose are not organising MTLS for their own profit but I suspect because they care about the railway just as much as you or I do.  Sure their reasons for caring might be different but most of your business and commuter passengers depend on the railway to pay their mortgages just as much as you do (just less directly).

MTLS may be wrong, Grahame's constructive engagement approach might be better (Personally I think both approaches are needed and have respect for both Grahame and Tony), but the folks who organise and take part in fare strikes and who write to their MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) and newpapers about poor service are not doing it because they are chancers who think they can save a few quid.  They are doing it because they care about our railway and are angry about hwta is happening to it and in that regard at least we are all on the same side.