A Middle Class Thing?

[whole diary]

[Red Squirrel]

Martin Griffiths, the incoming boss of Stagecoach, says:

^Railways are some kind of middle-class thing. People want to talk about rail. We have to accept that, but we have to keep making the case for 'bus^ in this country. Bus is still by far the most important way for people to travel and it^s a good story.^

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/10021027/Sunday-Interview-Railways-are-some-kind-of-middle-class-thing.html

Is this true? I think a lot of decision-makers miss the point that rail is vastly more acceptable to most people than bus. People who would rather be eviscerated with rusty implements than catch a bus (be it on a normal road or a guided busway) will happily leave their car behind and jump on a train if one is available .

Look at the modal split in London, where high-quality rail services cover much of the city: According to TfL^» (Transport for London - about)^s 2010 report ^Travel in London^, 20% of journeys were made by bus and tram, and 19% by Underground, rail and DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) (see http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/Travel_in_London_Report_2.pdf p44). And that was before the recent hugely successful extensions to the London Overground.

I tend to be wary of people who cite ^class^ in their arguments, but so far as I am able to judge these things I^d say there was a pretty good cross-section of all socio-economic groups travelling by rail in London.

I can^t quite understand what point Mr Griffiths is trying to make^ bus is and always will be an inferior mode of transport. Class doesn^t come into it. If we are hoping to get people out of their cars, then rail is the way forward.

[broadgage]

To a certain extent it is a class thing.
The middle classes tend to earn more and to live futhur out of London or other large cities, rail is often the best mode of transport from say Woking, Surbition, or Basingstoke.
The working class tend to live nearer their work and therefore be more likely to take the bus.

There must be many exceptions, but in general this is so.

In London, the underground is hugely expensive and many of the less well off cant afford it. The cost of an underground ticket is approaching an hours minimum wage.
Busses are relatively affordable.

Another reason that inner London commuters (who are more likely to be working class) avoid the trains is gross overcrowding. In my case, I could in theory use an FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect) train to get to work, but in fact I often use the much slower bus.
On the bus I allways get a seat as I board near the begining of the route.
On the FCC train there is no question of getting a seat, and often there is not standing room.
The FCC train might well not turn up at all, and might be half length. This causes delay of at least an hour, since after a cancellation the following train will be much too crowded to board.
A (more likely to be middle class) customer who boarded the train at say Sevenoaks would probably get a seat.

Bus travel is far more reliable, on the route that I use they run every few minutes and if one is cancelled it wont be long until the next one.
If the bus breaks down, it is possible to alight and walk, take another bus, or a taxi.
In the case of a breakdown on FCC one can be stuck for hours, sometimes below ground.
Reliability is arguably more important for the working class than the middle class. Many employers of the middle classes are relatively forgiving regarding attendance and will allow working from home on bad FCC days.
Many of the working class have less forgiving employers who will deduct wages for lateness or non arrival, and replace the employee if they reguraly fail to turn up.
And of course many working class jobs absolutely need actually being at work, a shelf stacker or burger flipper cant "work from home" but theire boss probably does. IME^▸ (in my experience), many working class travellers feel that they cant risk there jobs by taking the train and arriving late or not at all, each time it is raining/snowing/windy.

[Brucey]

In London, the underground is hugely expensive and many of the less well off cant afford it. The cost of an underground ticket is approaching an hours minimum wage.
Busses are relatively affordable.

A Zone 1-2 tube single is ^2.80 peak or ^2.10 off-peak, hardly an hours wage.  The only fares from Zone 1 over the minimum wage are to destinations beyond Zone 8, which is not in London anyway.

My experience of London Buses is that you often require several to reach your destination, at ^1.40 a pop this can add up quite quickly.

[devon_metro]

In London, the underground is hugely expensive and many of the less well off cant afford it. The cost of an underground ticket is approaching an hours minimum wage.
Busses are relatively affordable.

A Zone 1-2 tube single is ^2.80 peak or ^2.10 off-peak, hardly an hours wage.  The only fares from Zone 1 over the minimum wage are to destinations beyond Zone 8, which is not in London anyway.

Thought it was ^4 single? Or are they Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) fares?

[Brucey]

They are Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) fares.  There is no additional cost to using an Oyster card, other than the initial ^5 deposit which is refundable on returning the card.

[devon_metro]

They are Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) fares.  There is no additional cost to using an Oyster card, other than the initial ^5 deposit which is refundable on returning the card.

Certainly worth having then, unless like me you visit London infrequently and use Travelcards which work out good value as a cash fare.

[grahame]

To a certain extent it is a class thing.
The middle classes tend to earn more and to live futhur out of London or other large cities, rail is often the best mode of transport from say Woking, Surbition, or Basingstoke.
The working class tend to live nearer their work and therefore be more likely to take the bus.

"How many miles on average does a UK^▸ (United Kingdom) resident travel by BUS each year?"
   - 360 miles
"What is the average bus journey length in the UK"
   - 6 miles
and that equates to 60 journeys per year

"How many miles on average does a UK resident travel by TRAIN each year?"
   - 800
"What is the average train journey length in the UK"
   - 20 miles
and that equates to 40 journeys per year

(Will take me a while to re-find my sources as this was from a quiz and associated data put together last year)

Bus travel is far more reliable, on the route that I use they run every few minutes and if one is cancelled it wont be long until the next one.
If the bus breaks down, it is possible to alight and walk, take another bus, or a taxi.

Hmmm ... that's the urban take.  In the evening getting home from Chippenham, I have a train ay 19:01, a bus at 19:16, and a bus as 22:20.  If the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) train arriving at 19:13 is a couple of minutes late, the bus leaves on time ... although the bus can sometimes be up to 40 minutes late, and there's no way of telling if it's been and gone, late, or cancelled.   Please - can we have some of the urban stuff our way?

[devon_metro]

I would have thought "middle class" people would be more inclined to shun public transport and use their cars. Perhaps my opinion of "middle class" is different to others, or perhaps based on experiences in the South West where public transport is often not a viable/affordable method of commuting unless you happen to work in a city.

My personal experience as a student, the bus is an option I use scathingly when weather conditions do not permit cycling/walking or where driving is not practical. The train is something i'd use if it was considerably cheaper/more practical than the car. But i'm not "middle class" so what does it matter!

[Chris from Nailsea]

... the bus is an option I use scathingly ...

Gently, devon_metro: buses have feelings, too! 

[devon_metro]

... the bus is an option I use scathingly ...

Gently, devon_metro: buses have feelings, too! 

I may have meant sparingly. My apologies to any buses that I may have offended 

[Network SouthEast]

My experiences as a bus user in the past were much different to broadgauge. When I had to commute using the bus (thankfully 10 years ago) because my destination wasn't on the rail network, I had a bus service that operated every ten minutes during the day time. These were full size buses. In the morning it was common for buses to not even stop at my bus stop due to already being full and standing. I was lucky if I could even get on, let alone stand.

I think it is important to treat bus and train services seriously. A successful bus network can feed in to a successful rail network. You boost confidence and have an upward spiral.

[Southern Stag]

The main problem with buses I have is the cost, if they were a little cheaper I'd use them more but I'd rather walk the 2 miles to the station and catch a train. The majority of journeys I make are on foot, and if I need to go any further than I am willing to walk I'll use the train. The bus just isn't that attractive to me, and I don't drive.

[Surrey 455]

Another point to mention is that in most towns there will be a selection of bus routes that will go off in different directions (although usually only short range) whilst the train, if there is a station, will often only follow one route.

So some people will get the bus, not because they are working class, but because it gets them where they want to go. The train however may not go that destination.

In practice my journeys often involve a combination of both.

[Electric train]

Well I would not expect the CEO^▸ (Chief Executive Officer) of basically a bus owning and operating company to say anything else the majority of their turnover is buses.

[Red Squirrel]

Well I would not expect the CEO^▸ (Chief Executive Officer) of basically a bus owning and operating company to say anything else the majority of their turnover is buses.

Stagecoach owns 49% of Virgin Rail