Sanity check, please! Melksham to London, and possible splits

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

National Rail Enquiries Journey Planner gives me Melksham to both Farnborough (Main) and London Waterloo via Salisbury on one ticket.

Getting FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s booking engine to sell a fare from Melksham to Farnborough (Main) via Salisbury isn't working however. That's doesn't mean it isn't valid though.

I'll reiterate. Based on all the evidence I can find; a Melksham* to London Terminals 7 Day Season (Any Permitted) is valid via Bath and/or Swindon, Newbury, and Salisbury. And also valid to stop/start/break at Farnborough (Main).

*Or Warminster/Dilton Marsh if you want to save around ^12 and not have the journeys from Melksham recorded.

Caveat. YMMV^▸ (Your Method/Mileage May Vary) 

[swrural]

I don't know what YMMV^▸ (Your Method/Mileage May Vary) means but I am not going to moan about it as I wish to shew (GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) (Great Western Railway) 'show') solidarity with users of abbs (abbreviations).

Imagine I am a GrahamE without the expertise available, as so imposingly just displayed by BNM and colleagues.

What would be the highest cost that a pax with no knowledge whatsoever of the 'tricks' available would pay compared with the best deal as uncovered by BNM?

[JayMac]

I don't know what YMMV^▸ (Your Method/Mileage May Vary) means but I am not going to moan about it

Please do moan. I did say on another thread that I'm sometimes guilty of using acronyms/abbreviations without divulging their definition. You've rightly flagged this one up and I apologise unreservedly. Hoist by own petard somewhat. 

YMMV - Your Method/Mileage May Vary. Meaning the actual experience in the real world may differ from the that discussed in the preceeding posts.

[grahame]

Imagine I am a GrahamE without the expertise available, as so imposingly just displayed by BNM and colleagues.

What would be the highest cost that a pax with no knowledge whatsoever of the 'tricks' available would pay compared with the best deal as uncovered by BNM?

Well ... my starting point was:
* 3 days Melksham to Farnbourough at 114.00 return per day
* 2 days Melksham to London at 175.00 return per day
So I suppose the answer is 692 pounds.

I know to take a look at splits and seasons, so I had somewhat moved away from that scenario before I posted ... and had 692 pounds really been the best I could have done, I would have looked wider for a non-daily-rail alternative

Edit to correct figures.   Outbound from Melksham on Thurs and Fri mornings will be via Newbury - higher fare

[swrural]

Hmm, thanks.  Forgetting elderly grannies (as of course the travel plans are self-evidently for a young thrusting business person) would it be likely that, if one phoned up, one would be offered something reasonable?

I suppose the only real way to answer that question would be to phone up as a test.

[JayMac]

If grahame were to phone up National Rail Enquiries explaining that on three seperate days he would be travelling Melksham - Farnborough (Main) and on a further 2 days in the same week he'd be travelling Melksham - London it is highly likely that the tickets he would be offered are the point-to-point ones totaling nearly ^700.

Asking if there was a Season Ticket that would cover all the trips would likely be met with the response to buy two separate Season Tickets, one for Farnborough (Main) and one for London. That would come to around ^420.

The chances of a NRE^‡(resolve) call centre employee knowing enough about the permitted routes, Routeing Guide, using different but valid origin/destination stations, starting/ending short, break of journey etc. are next to none. It being highly likely that you'll be speaking to someone in another country who is never going to know the geography of which stations are on which line of route.

You may have a slightly better chance of success at a staffed station, but this is by no means a certainty either. Ticket office clerks will often struggle with anything out of the ordinary, and it is only those who have taken a personal interest (in their own time) in the fares system, its complexities and anomalies, who may be of help. How you phrase your questions is important as well. Ask for individual journeys to different destinations over one week and its unlikely the clerk will look to see if there is a Season ticket that covers those journeys.

There is no will within the industry to either better train their staff in the dark art of the fares system or to simplify that system. So it falls to a bunch of anal amateurs like myself to try an unravel the complexity and find the best deal. Both for myself and anyone who asks.

[grahame]

If grahame were to phone up National Rail Enquiries explaining that on three seperate days he would be travelling Melksham - Farnborough (Main) and on a further 2 days in the same week he'd be travelling Melksham - London it is highly likely that the tickets he would be offered are the point-to-point ones totaling nearly ^700.

Asking if there was a Season Ticket that would cover all the trips would likely be met with the response to buy two separate Season Tickets, one for Farnborough (Main) and one for London. That would come to around ^420.

I thought that your comments were probably (a) accurate but also (b) not showing NR^» (Network Rail - home page) enquiries in a good light so - as it was just a phone call and wouldn't waste too much of their time - I gave it a go.  And indeed the professionals should be able to do better than us "anal amateurs" shouldn't they - so perhaps they would give us a pleasant surprise and come up with something better value still.

I was offered two separate season tickets totalling 415.50 ... good that I didn't have to ask about seasons, in fact he said "hang on - I'll check if season tickets are cheaper for that journey"  and came up with 172.50 + 243.00.  But in fact I don't need the 172.50 at all, as the 243.00 ticket (certainly if bought from Trowbridge) is valid via Farnborough anyway. After the prices were given, I specifically asked if I needed separate 7 day season tickets for the Farnborough journeys and the London journeys, and was told "yes, you do".

Also come to think of it ... 172.50 is rather steep.   3 x Trowbridge to Farnbrough anytime day returns at 27.80 each, plus 3 x Melksham to Trowbridge anytime day returns at 4.10 would work out at a total of 97.50 ...

In summary ... better advise than I feared, but still telling me to spend nearly 200 pounds more that I need ...

Important corollary question please BNM ... I already have a photocard.   Can I buy my season on the train?   Chap at Trowbridge ticket office told me I can buy it in the train (but not from him until midday tomorrow).  Chap on phone says I have to go to a manned station to buy my season. 

[JayMac]

If you already have a photocard then yes you can buy a 7 Day Season ticket on board from a Conductor wielding an Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains).

He/she should be more than happy to sell a ^243 ticket. Commission, kerching!

If for any reason, he/she can't sell, then the 'earliest opportunity' requirement comes in. Be that interchange station (without delaying one's journey), the next train or destination.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Administrator note:

Subsequent posts on this specific topic have been split off into an ongoing general discussion of their own, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=12362.0 

[grahame]

Thanks, Chris ... off at the crack of dawn tomorrow ... let's see if I have any problems with buying and using a single season.

Actually - I'll have Saturday and Sunday too.  Wondering about a day out 

[thetrout]

Just wanted to add if I may that I agree with BNM on the Melksham ticket being valid via Salisbury.

I would compare it to a Super Off Peak Single from Bath Spa - London Terminals priced at ^30.50 (No Discounts) which is valid on both the 13:07 Departure from Bath Spa - London Waterloo via Salisbury yet also the 13:16 from Bath Spa - London Paddingtion via Swindon.

The latter train arrives into London over an hour earlier despite departing later. Both routes and trains are entirely valid on that ticket.

(I use trains via Salisbury to London fairly regularly )


Brucey - I also agree about your Travelcard and Boundary Tickets. On my last trip back from the big smoke, I had a First Class Day Travelcard from Epsom - ZONES 1-6. So I purchased a Boundary Zone 6 - Basingstoke (BSK^▸ (Brake Standard Corridor (carriage))) ticket to continue my journey back towards Somerset. I don't know whether it would've been quibbled by Rail Staff as I wasn't ticket checked between Clapham Junction and BSK at all

[grahame]

Five people joined the 06:38 this morning at Melksham .. pityful for a town of 25,000, but surprisingly strong for a service that only runs twice a day - next train 19:11.  We got chatting - all of us would prefer a later service in the morning, and an earlier one back in the evening.  One says she's getting complaints at work about being there too long ;-)

I've got a Melksham to London Termini, any route, which I think is correct. Took some finding on the Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains), but conductor very good natured and chatty. The 243 pounds is fair IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) (in my humble opinion), and I would much prefer to be properly registered as travelling from Melksham - real data - rather than somewhere else to save a tenner.  Feels more honest, even though Dilton Marsh would have been valid and allowed.

Amused by the conductor at Dilton Marsh, at the front door to let folk off (1) and on (3 or 4) giving the right away by shouting "Ding Ding" to the driver - who of course shouted back in a similar vein!

Beautiful morning between Warminster and Salisbury - just passing Wylye Parkway as I write.

[grahame]

I think I can guess at the answer ... but I'm asking.   Does my Melksham to London Termini (any route) ticket allow Farnbourough to Melksham via Reading (ie Farnbrough North) as well as via Salisbury (ie Farnborough Main)?  (I've noticed that the two stations are grouped somehow, and Melksham to Farnborough times and tickets are offered to either)

[JayMac]

Appropriate Routeing Points for Melksham are Westbury and Chippenham. London is a Routeing Point in its own right. So to find out whether you can use Farnborough North we'd need to look at the mapped routes in the Routeing Guide for Westbury or Chippenham to London to see if any of those show a route through Farnborough North.

 Valid Routes from Melksham to London Terminals:


Shortest Route: 100.25 miles:
Melksham, Chippenham, Swindon, Reading, London Paddington

Mapped Routes (subject to fares check):

Chippenham - LONDON GROUP:

• BL
  
• BL + WX
  
• LA
  
• LA + WX
  

WESTBURY GROUP - LONDON GROUP:

• BL
  
• WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority))
  
• WE
  
• WE + WX
  
• WX + WE
  

Farnborough North station is on the line between Wokingham and Guildford and that line is not on any of the mapped routes. Therefore it would not be permitted to travel between Farnbourough North and Reading on a Melksham - London Terminals (Any Permitted) ticket.

A single would be required from Farnborough North to Wokingham. Wokingham being back on a permitted route. ^4.80 Peak, ^4.40 Off Peak after 0915.

[grahame]

Appropriate Routeing Points for Melksham are Westbury and Chippenham. London is a Routeing Point in its own right. So to find out whether you can use Farnborough North we'd need to look at the mapped routes in the Routeing Guide for Westbury or Chippenham to London to see if any of those show a route through Farnborough North.

 Valid Routes from Melksham to London Terminals:


Shortest Route: 100.25 miles:
Melksham, Chippenham, Swindon, Reading, London Paddington

Mapped Routes (subject to fares check):

Chippenham - LONDON GROUP:

• BL
  
• BL + WX
  
• LA
  
• LA + WX
  

WESTBURY GROUP - LONDON GROUP:

• BL
  
• WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority))
  
• WE
  
• WE + WX
  
• WX + WE
  

Farnborough North station is on the line between Wokingham and Guildford and that line is not on any of the mapped routes. Therefore it would not be permitted to travel between Farnbourough North and Reading on a Melksham - London Terminals (Any Permitted) ticket.

A single would be required from Farnborough North to Wokingham. Wokingham being back on a permitted route. ^4.80 Peak, ^4.40 Off Peak after 0915.

Wow ... thanks.   I have to decide if 30 minutes saved is worth 4.40.  It probably is this evening, but not tomorrow.   What fun  ... and the train does call at Wokingham (not that it has too, as exactly one ticket on the split is a season!)