More expensive station parking to decimate train use or are there other factors?

[whole diary]

[grahame]

The  original article was entitled "Rise in parking charges could see station axed".   I guess I felt that was a bit over the top / unlikely due to the cost of closure procedures, etc and that it would be better to look at other places that services have been cut to bare bones as a comparison point, such as the one I used, or Brigg, Denton, Teeside Airport or Pilning.

[Chris from Nailsea]

It would indeed be rather worrying if the introduction of car parking charges were to see Pilning Station axed ... 

[Rhydgaled]

One of the reasons for Fishguard & Goodwick station reopening was supposedly the expensive car parking at Fishguard Harbour. Sadly openning Goodwick meant the buses stopped serving Fishguard Harbour, meaning the vastly superior facilities for interchange (waiting room and toilets) at the harbour are no longer available for connecting passengers, except perhaps one train a day when the buses go down to the harbour for the ferry.

But wasn't there just one bus to train connection available anyway at the Harbour?  As I recall trains were twice a day - lunchtime / early afternoon, and in the middle of the night.  You're saying that buses still go down to the ferry and connect with the daytime train there, so I'm not sure I can see that anything has been lost - or are you simply commenting that it could have been done more / differently with the interchange point of choice between road and rail being at the pre-exisiting station rather than the new one?

You are quite correct, the two bus trips to the harbour and back, timed to connect with the daytime boat train, were there back when there was one train a day. This is also the case at present, buses to the harbour for the daytime boat train / ferry only.

HOWEVER, the train service was boosted BEFORE Fishguard & Goodwick station opened, so a handful of buses were diverted via the harbour station to connect with some of the extra trains. For example the 7am Cardigan to Haverfordwest was retimed to depart Cardigan a few minutes earlier and gave passengers a connection into the 08:04 train (20 minute wait, fine if you have a waiting room which the harbour station does). Unfortunately when FGW^▸ (First Great Western) opened all the extra buses to the harbour were removed, including that one which reverted to 7am off Cardigan. Now the 20 minute wait is at FGW rather than FGH and in my opinion is no longer a 'connection' due to the lack of facilities at FGW.

Not being local to Fishguard, I may be talking through my hat, but the Richards Bros timetable of local buses seems to show connections timed for the trains at Fishguard and Goodwick Station and my recollection is that the main road passes right by the station. I believe the trains serving West Wales have toilets so that shouldn't be a problem.  Since Google Earth has an old street view of the area, I cannot tell whether the council have erected a shelter for intending passengers, but that certainly should be in place now that the stop is more frequently used (I hope).

I intend to take advantage of the increased service so have looked at the options for arrival at the new station.  I hope I won't be disappointed.

Different pepole have different definitions of 'connection'. By my definition, bus/rail connections at Fishguard & Goodwick are impossible (because I don't trust the train to be sufficently punctial to allow a short enough wait time that the wind doesn't freeze you). There are buses sure enough (except on Sundays), but some of them cut it fine and others leave you out in the cold for a long while. There are bus shelters, but bus shelters are hopeless against wind.

For your information not all routes pass the station bus stops (just outside the station entrance), for the St. Davids - Fishguard service in particular you need to go to the Tesco Express (it isn't all that far away though).

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Anyway, sorry for partially derailing the thread, I mentioned FGW as an example of a station being openned to cut the cost of car parking for rail users.

[trainer]

I enjoyed the diversion, Rhydgaled.  Thanks for the info which will be useful when I visit.

[onthecushions]

I'm doubtful about the effect of car parks, as each car space generally only generates 2 passenger movements per day (1 in, 1 out), although I like using them. By contrast, pedestrian access is reckoned possible within 12 minutes walk at 5km/hr, i.e  a catchment area of about 3.2 km2, or a population of about 12 000. Typically about 25 movements per year per individual seem to be a reasonable average, giving a typical suburban station figure of about 300 000. Bus link amplify this considerably.

To provide this equal access by car over say 300 days needs 500 spaces, hence my scepticism.

Incidentally, this method indicates how high Melksham passenger usage could be, if the residential area is compact and near.

OTC

[brompton rail]

In addition to those points about the numbers of potential rail customers who can arrive at a station by walking or using a convenient (an important word!) bus service, I would add that good, safe and attractive cycling routes will widen the station catchment zone considerably. As many stations (especially London travel to work area ones) have demonstrated secure cycle parking reveals a huge demand, which often results in the number of spaces doubling every few years. Of course, secure cycle parking is far cheaper to provide than car parking given that perhaps a dozen or so bikes can fit into one car park space.

[grahame]

"How did you get to the station?" - data from survey on a typical weekday, now a year or two old.  Unsure of sampling methodology - and data came with a valid caution (which I'll repeat) about not relying on low figures of under 100 in a sample, and being very careful indeed (to the extent of ignoring!) samples of under 50.



Many thanks to Passenger Focus for this data / these data sets which have been really useful in generating thoughts as to connection at stations. And the figures do not disagree with other evidence, which is always good news in firming up ideas.

[eightf48544]

Very interesting figures.

Surprised figures for waliking are first but coming to think about it I walked to Taplow Staion for nearly 40 years, then walked to the Underground then to my office.

Interssting that cardrop off is higher than parking but then again experience at Slough watching the 19:36 HST^▸ (High Speed Train) arrive suggests more people are picked up off that train than have parked.

Wonder what Other is? Sinclair C5 or that new two wheeld stick thing that was supposed to catch on. Terrible remembering names.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Segway - see Segway boss Jimi Heselden dies in scooter cliff fall. 

[John R]

Will never catch on here unless is it made legal to use in a public place.