TVM Collection - Bank Card Blunder

[whole diary]

[thetrout]

05:43 to London Paddington from Bath Spa this morning (Southend Victoria is destination). 1ST Advance booked for collection from Bath Spa.

Last week my Bank issued me with a replacement card after I reported that the card was defective (It disintegrated). I need to stress that I asked for a Replacement and NOT a Lost/Stolen Re-Issue.

The new card arrived with me on Friday Evening so signed the back and popped it into my wallet. Sorted.

Get to the railway station this morning to collect the ticket, Put card in. TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) States: Please insert card used for payment (Or a message to that effect).

I examined the card and realised that the bank have clearly cocked it up as the last 2 digits on the card are different along with the CVC code on the back. My Credit Card was also replaced earlier this year and that was with the same number and CVC (Albeit different start date which hasn't affected anything... yet!)

So. With the ticket office not open early enough for the 05:43 Train to Paddington. thetrout has boarded the train without collecting said ticket, but does have the booking confirmation in the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) app on my iPhone.

Am I a likely sitting duck here?

[Timmer]

You've probably encountered the Train Manager by the time you read this and my guess was all went reasonably well with you being able to sort things out when you get to Paddington.

[bobm]

Service was a late start from Bristol "owing to waiting for a member of train crew".  They were probably drawing lots in the mess room to see who would have to deal with the trout!   

[JayMac]

In such circumstances, I would always approach the Train Manager before boarding. Yes, there's a chance you'll be told you can't travel, but the majority of staff would be understanding if you explain the problem clearly.

Sitting and waiting for the TM^‡(resolve) to come to you may not endear yourself to him/her. More so if you are sitting in 1st Class without a valid ticket.

[thetrout]

Thanks for the replies all. Didn't actually get ticket checked until around Slough. TM^‡(resolve) was very good after I explained the situation and showed him the booking on my iPhone. As I was travelling to Southend he said to collect the ticket at Paddington as he wouldn't have been able to issue anything as he didn't have a machine.

The train was indeed slightly late. I wonder if the reason is as bobm said. As the TM was still in bed when the train should've left Bristol at 5:30... Clearly couldn't face a potential trouting!! Picked up a minor delay at Reading too as BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) were summoned to eject a passenger from the train (not me... honest )

BNM ideally yes that would've been the best course of action but as the train was running late I decided to 'chance it'. The lady in the Buffet recognised me also and served me compo's without suspicion

However you're comment "Could be refused travel" worries me slightly. As this was an AP ticket, presumably I would have to purchase another ticket? Who would be classed as at fault.

1) The railway for no open ticket office and TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) refusing the card for the same Bank Account, just a replacement issued card (albeit a complete hash of it)

2) Me for not insuring I had a working card prior to travel; but that doesn't eliminate the possibility of the card becoming defective shortly before travel.

3) Both to blame for various reasons and/or the Bank.

In relation to that I assume it will be the same problem for someone who purchases a ticket online and the card expires before it is collected...?

TT

[ChrisB]

Your responsibility to ensure a valid way of collection exists to pick up your card.

WAs the ticket office meant to be open atthat time? your responsibility to find out, and collect when it is open. etc etc

[John R]

National Rail says it opens at 6am on a Saturday, so no, it wasn't meant to be open.

[ChrisB]

So you are required to know this & make arrangements to collect them, as you knew your card was knackered. You are fully responsible for your tickets, and collection thereof.

I don't think cards are 'replaced' as an exact copy any longer? they are always issued as a security measure with either a new number, different expiry or both. So any change of card would necessitate a visit to a ticket office. In these circumstances, any FGW^▸ (First Great Western) ticket office would do, just as though you could attend any (FGW) ticket office with TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) facilities to collect your pre-booked tickets.

I believe (but need it checked) that a call into FGW ticketing services in advance of travel can getthe booking amended in thesecases to allow collection with any valid bank card issued to you - just as business bookings are...

We have a Customer Panel coming up - I'll see if I can get definitive answers, and suggest an FAQ^▸ (Frequently Asked Questions) be put on their website.

Can you confirm that the card was knackered after you bought them? And secondly, how far in advance did you book them?

[bobm]

Easy to be wise after the event - but when a card is replaced for damage, rather than being lost or stolen, there is an overlap when both the old and new cards are valid to allow for the time it takes the new one to come through the post.  Therefore if the old card was not sufficiently damaged that it would not have physically fitted in the slot or be unreadable by the machine, it would have worked.

[ChrisB]

If the card was still insertable-in-the-slot, but otherwise replaced for damage, like a crack in the plastic, it would actually work the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) for collecting until its expiry date. I don't think the machine calls 'home' to check its validity, just reads data off the chip/strip.

[BerkshireBugsy]

I don't think cards are 'replaced' as an exact copy any longer? they are always issued as a security measure with either a new number, different expiry or both.

I think this depends on the reason for the replacement. For example today I went into the local Santander branch to request a new debit card because the top right corner got caught in the car door and although it works fine the ATMs^‡(resolve) don't recognise it as a valid card. When I have had requested a new card before for similar reasons the long number and the PIN have remained the same but the CVV and start/expiry dates change. The new card would be only be valid after I used it first.

If however the card had been scammed (and this has happened to me before) I would expect a new card with new long number and the wors

Dave

[Surrey 455]

I don't think cards are 'replaced' as an exact copy any longer? they are always issued as a security measure with either a new number, different expiry or both.

I think this depends on the reason for the replacement.

Don't know if the procedure is set down by Visa/Mastercard or individual banks. For example debit card replacement at Barclays will always result in the last 2 or 3 digits changing no matter what the reason for replacement.

However their credit cards retain the same number if replaced for damage or expiry.

[Super Guard]

I don't think cards are 'replaced' as an exact copy any longer? they are always issued as a security measure with either a new number, different expiry or both.

I think this depends on the reason for the replacement.

However their credit cards retain the same number if replaced for damage or expiry.

I think generally with Credit Cards, as the card number is the actual account number of the account, then they only change for Lost/Stolen purposes.

[thetrout]

Thanks for the replies Gents

In answer to your questions:

• Can you confirm that the card was knackered after you bought them? And secondly, how far in advance did you book them?

Yes. Card died after booking the tickets. Tickets were booked on the 5th April for Travel on 13th. Card Died on the 6th (Saturday) and I ordered a replacement in Bristol the same day (Bank was open till 16:00). Bank told me the replacement card would be with me on Tuesday and that my old one would continue working until I started using the new one, was also told the only different details would be the valid from and to dates. Didn't get the replacement card till 22:00 on Friday as post doesn't come to my house until lunchtime by which time I had left for the morning

I think I was being rather naive to be honest. Also lulled into a false sense of security as I had my HSBC MasterCard replaced a few weeks back after it kept being declined. When the new one arrived the only number that was different was the valid from. CVV, 16 Digits and Valid To date remained the same.

To be honest the fact that the machine rejected my card completely caught me by surprise. I was under the impression, same bank account but replaced card, it'll be fine... Errr no. It wasn't!

Don't know if the procedure is set down by Visa/Mastercard or individual banks. For example debit card replacement at Barclays will always result in the last 2 or 3 digits changing no matter what the reason for replacement.

Last 2 digits where different

I think generally with Credit Cards, as the card number is the actual account number of the account, then they only change for Lost/Stolen purposes.

That's correct

If the card was still insertable-in-the-slot, but otherwise replaced for damage, like a crack in the plastic, it would actually work the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) for collecting until its expiry date. I don't think the machine calls 'home' to check its validity, just reads data off the chip/strip.

Trust me... This one wouldn't have done


Can I throw a further spanner in the works...? I don't particularly like 'What Ifs' - However, what if I had my card lost/stolen on the Friday late Evening before travel on the Saturday Morning... (And yes, annoyingly, I have once been in that situation; however the ticket office was open )

[ChrisB]

I suspect you would have to have bought fresh tickets on the Saturday & claimed a refund on the originals.

T&Cs very clear that it is your responsibility to  collect your tickets in advance of travel. A knackered card is hardly any fault etc of a third-party company, is it?