Valid excuse for using ticket on the wrong train ?

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

It is well known that many discounted tickets are valid only a particular train and that it is the passengers job to get to the departure station on time.
The only regular exception to this rule is when a late arrival or cancellation of a connecting train service results in the passenger being unable to use the booked train.

It is considered that the passenger being unable to board the correct train is thus the fault of the railway and that the passenger should not be penalised.

If the delay is due to some other problem, such as traffic jams, car breakdown, taxi failed to turn up etc. then it is considered to be the passengers fault and an often considerable  extra fare is payable.
This may seem harsh, but the railway cant realisticly accept liability for roadworks or taxis failing to arrive on time.

In general a late running bus (unless a rail replacement service) is not the fault of the railway, and failure to catch the booked train due to bus problems is not the fault of the railway.

But what about the 28 bus that runs between Taunton and Minehead ? Is this service considered to be a part of the railway network ?

Unlike most buses, this service is shown on railway station departure boards, and is advertised in timetables as a connecting service.
If I had a discounted "booked train only" ticket from Taunton to London and failed to catch the train, would I be entitled to use the following service with the same ticket ?

P.S. this has not happened as I generaly buy an open ticket, but just wondering.

[ChrisB]

I would assume not.

[inspector_blakey]

I would also assume not, *unless* you had a through Advance ticket to Minehead that includes the bus connection (destination "Minehead Bus"). It would appear from the Fares Manual that these can be issued by adding a flat price onto rail travel to Taunton, and a quick dummy enquiry on Red Spotted Hanky for tomorrow brings up Advance fares for a Paddington - Minehead Bus journey.

[Super Guard]

Only with a through ticket (which as IB has confirmed are possible to buy).

If you have bought the bus ticket separately then in theory you've "split ticket" the journey, which is similar to the risks for those who split tickets with several Advances - if your first train is cancelled, and you miss your next "Advance" train, you're screwed for the lot.

[thetrout]

A Virgin Trains member of staff told me that if I miss a connecting advance booked service on a cross London journey; say Salisbury - Stoke-on-Trent. Then according to her, delays on London Underground services don't count. So if I miss my connection at Euston because the Northern Line was closed. Then it's a new ticket...

Super Guard, appreciate you work on the railway, but are you really sure about your last point? I thought the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) included cover split advance tickets, as broadgage says ot was a railway related cause. So if you're delayed on one AP train and miss the next you'll still be allowed travel? At least that has always been my experience

[ChrisB]

I have also benefited - but I think it was generosity from the TM^‡(resolve), rather than laid down in the Conditions. I'm sure twho Advances are covered somewhere....

[paul7575]

...which is similar to the risks for those who split tickets with several Advances - if your first train is cancelled, and you miss your next "Advance" train, you're screwed for the lot.

Not according to the relevant FAQs^▸ (Frequently Asked Questions) in 'the manual'.  The instructions to staff (which have been posted here before) seem to be the exact opposite to what you say, e.g.:

Q04 - Can a customer buy two Advance tickets which join together to make one journey, e.g. ticket for A-B plus ticket for B-C, to travel the throughout journey A-C?
A: Yes, provided the train calls at B (NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage),)
Note 1: Where a passenger buys multiple Advance tickets in this way, if they then have to change their booking, it will
also cost them multiple amounts of ^10 fee.
Note 2: Where separate train companies are used for A-B and B-C with a change of train and ticket at B, it is still classed as a through rail journey in the event of delays (see also Q21 below) provided connections were booked in accordance with the advertised minimum times for stations.  

So fairly obviously problems can arise if the passenger hasn't included the minimum transfers (across London for example), however the same FAQs go on to state that if the LU leg of the journey is on a single ticket or a zonal ticket, then you are covered for LU delays, (as part of the answer to Q22):

Q22...
...e.g. Advance ticket Bristol-Paddington plus tube single ticket plus Advance ticket Kings Cross to Hull.
All-Zones Travelcard, PTE^▸ (Passenger Transport Executive)-products etc (where rail is included) plus Advance ticket;

Paul

[Timmer]

A Virgin Trains member of staff told me that if I miss a connecting advance booked service on a cross London journey; say Salisbury - Stoke-on-Trent. Then according to her, delays on London Underground services don't count. So if I miss my connection at Euston because the Northern Line was closed. Then it's a new ticket...

I think that is incorrect as the Underground is a part of the journey included in the price of the ticket with the minimum connection time included in the itinerary so if you fail to make it in time because of a delay on the Underground you would be covered.

[Super Guard]

Fair enough, I stand corrected 

[Nibat]

Perhaps not considered necessary as per NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage), but I would always seek some kind of endorsement from the bus driver and/or from somebody from London Underground (unless the problems are so wide that they have been passed onto staff through say Tyrell).  The bus might have been genuinely late, but I won't necessarily know if I've been working the train say from Plymouth...

It's easier to use discretion when you have some way to prove it   

[thetrout]

It's easier to use discretion when you have some way to prove it   

Agreed.

Also sometimes starting a dialogue of:

"I have an Advance Ticket but I have missed the booked train due to XYZ. I am willing to pay for a new ticket if you would like me too?"

Which has worked for me on the occasions I've had to use it before in the past. Of course The 5 P's should always be adhered to so you don't find yourself in such a situation.

I think that is incorrect as the Underground is a part of the journey included in the price of the ticket with the minimum connection time included in the itinerary so if you fail to make it in time because of a delay on the Underground you would be covered.

I thought that too. Virgin have some rather interesting methods of how and why they decide something is valid or not... I've had experiences of both sides of the coin.

Virgin have provided a Taxi for me from Salisbury - Frome at ^98.00 after being over 2 hours late due to a Signal Failure at Macclesfield. The tickets held were a First Advance, Stoke-on-Trent - Salisbury and a Standard Anytime Day Single Salisbury - Frome for the 22:55 (Last Service to Westbury). As I had ticked all the minimum connection times they had to provide. When asked by the TM^‡(resolve) why I didn't book a Stoke - Frome Advance I told her it was because they didn't sell Advance tickets on that route, whereas on SWT^▸ (South West Trains) they do (Presumably because Stagecoach own 49% of VT^▸ (Virgin Trains - former franchises) and SWT I think Outright)

The otherside of the coin was (and technically could be considered partly my fault) was when I arrived in Waterloo to take the tube up to Euston. I went to the toilet before getting the Underground and whilst I was in there (about 10 minutes) the Northern Line broke down and there were already severe delays on the Circle/District. Needless to say I made as quick an effort as I could and arrived at Euston just as my train dropped off the departures screen. On the next train this is where I encountered the rule of the London Underground being exempt from Railway Control Delays... Needless to say I kept the reason for my delay into the underground very quiet... But thinking in realistic terms. I doubt it would've made a difference if I toileted or not... On discovering I had a DSB Railcard the TM dropped it very quickly and moved on and suggested booking assistance next time... (Which is rather ironic considering some staff ask me whats going on when I've been spotted trouting on the station platforms )