East - West Rail update (Oxford to Bedford) - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[eightf48544]

Interesting! December Modern Railways has a piece which says that in fact Chiltern Rail will help EWR by doing the Oxford Bicester bit, the chord at Bicester and build Water Eaton Parkway station.

Chiltern will then run 2 tph to Marylebone and EWR will be able to run 2 tph to Milton Keynes and/or  Bedford plus Aylesbury  Milton Keynes.

Now if we could only get Bourne End - High Wycombe, Bucks could end up with a superb rail network serving all the principle towns.

Unfortunately the Maidenhead Advertiser has a report on a planning enquiry into a scheme to build on the track bed at Wooburn. If it were to be approved it would kill any reopening.

[John R]

I would have thought that Chiltern's contribution will significantly reduce the cost of the scheme (at least the infrastructure element of it), and make it much more likely to be funded. 

[IndustryInsider]

I would have thought that Chiltern's contribution will significantly reduce the cost of the scheme (at least the infrastructure element of it), and make it much more likely to be funded. 

Yes, let's hope so. It's almost amazing to think that the current mix of 20/30/40mph single track with a turbo bobbing along it every couple of hours, could, in five years time, be a high quality, high-speed inter-urban route which could also be seen as a strategic freight and passenger diversionary route.

[Electric train]

Now if we could only get Bourne End - High Wycombe, Bucks could end up with a superb rail network serving all the principle towns.

Unfortunately the Maidenhead Advertiser has a report on a planning enquiry into a scheme to build on the track bed at Wooburn. If it were to be approved it would kill any reopening.

As much as I would like to see it reopen, fond memories as small boy traveling from Furze Platt to Beaconsfield to see my Aunt, I fear to much has already been built on and the removal of the embankment for the retail park at High Wycombe place an even bigger problem.

[Chris from Nailsea]

"Rail campaigners are backing a 100mph fast train route across the centre of England linking Oxford and Cambridge.  The fast train route would go via Bicester, Aylesbury, Milton Keynes and Bedford with integrated links to connect Ipswich and Norwich to Swindon.  The plan involves a combination of existing, upgraded and reopened lines."

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7851976.stm

[Btline]

Two points:

Via Aylesbury? I think the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) have got it wrong. They probably mean a separate route from Aylesbury to Milton, and Oxford to Bedford.

And why only 100 mph? The section east of Bicester is pretty straight, and has no points for stations until Bletchley! 125 mph please!

[Electric train]

And why only 100 mph? The section east of Bicester is pretty straight, and has no points for stations until Bletchley! 125 mph please!

The extra cost for the infrastructure works, increased maintenance cost would make the proposal unviable, open the line at 100mph and then work at increasing the speed if the demand is there for faster trains, but I doubt there will be much saving in journey times

[John R]

100mph = 36 secs per mile. 125mph = 28.5secs.  ie 7.5secs per mile, so you need 8 miles to save 1 minute. So after allowing for accelerating and braking, the most you would save between Bicester and Bletchey is 2 minutes at a push. And 125mph stock needs to be more crashworthy, have dead space at both ends, and is thus more expensive in every respect.

So it would be completely unviable. Of more interest would be to electirify the line up front. Electrifying a disused line is much cheaper as there is no disruption cost. There will be oodles of EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) available once the Thameslink stock is cascaded, and if the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) is electrified in the next few years, then it would make sense.

But I agree with Electric Train keep the cost to a minimum and get the business case approved. 

 

[Btline]

Ok.

But don't electrify, as it would restrict the extensions to the service.

[IndustryInsider]

I think the fact that 90-100mph is being actively pursued is excellent - though that will be difficult to achieve between Oxford and Islip. I would have probably expected 75mph limit to have been decided upon for a rural route like this.

Does anyone know whether the intended re-engine of the Chiltern Railways 165/0's fleet will see their top speed increased from 75mph to 90/100mph?

[Btline]

They want to re-engine their 168s to 100 mph (to get 90 min timings London - Birminham). I doubt they'll change their 165s.

However, they will probably order more 172s (100 mph) to run the Oxford services.

[willc]

Two points:

Via Aylesbury? I think the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) have got it wrong. They probably mean a separate route from Aylesbury to Milton, and Oxford to Bedford.

And why only 100 mph? The section east of Bicester is pretty straight, and has no points for stations until Bletchley! 125 mph please!

I should think the people of Winslow, population getting on for 10,000, would quite like the trains to stop at their town along the way... also a couple of other stations are proposed between here and Bletchley where more housing is slated to go in as Milton Keynes grows. The proposed East-West service mix includes stoppers and semi-fasts to cater for the various markets. MK^▸ (Milton Keynes)-Aylesbury, via Claydon junction, is an aspiration of the East-West consortium.

100mph is fine for this sort of route, with relatively frequent stops and Chiltern's trains are unlikely to make that many calls at Islip anyway, Water Eaton Parkway (aka Kidlington) being a far juicer prospect, by saving people the struggle through the city to Oxford station.

Electrification won't be happening at the initial stage, but if GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) and MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) wires get the go-ahead, followed by XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), then Oxford-Bletchley-Bedford would be an obviously useful bit of infill, allowing freight diversions in particular when regular routes are blocked/under maintenance.

Class 168s, like other Turbostars, are already cleared for 100mph.

[Electric train]

Does anyone know whether the intended re-engine of the Chiltern Railways 165/0's fleet will see their top speed increased from 75mph to 90/100mph?

If it's a straight re-engine without gear box and final drive changes then the top speed will remain unchanged

[Btline]

Chiltern are re-engineering their 168 fleet for better acceleration to match the 172s'.

[IndustryInsider]

They want to re-engine their 168s to 100 mph (to get 90 min timings London - Birminham). I doubt they'll change their 165s.

However, they will probably order more 172s (100 mph) to run the Oxford services.

As Willc said, 168's are already 100mph trains. And as I've said before, I'll believe this 90 minute headline timing when I see it!