East - West Rail update (Oxford to Bedford) - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Lee]

Buckinghamshire County Council has 'holding objections' to East West Rail - https://www.mix96.co.uk/news/local/2742492/council-holding-objections-to-east-west-rail/

[Lee]

Award East West Rail contract to existing operator, forum urges government - http://www.businessmk.co.uk/news/art/3356/Award-East-West-Rail-contract-to-existing-operator-forum-urges-government.html

East West Rail seeks partners to develop Cambridge link - https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2019/01/21-east-west-rail-seeks-partners.html

[ChrisB]

It's also been descoped to terminating at Aylesbury, rather than further into Chiltern territory. No money to upgrade AYS-PRR^▸ (Princes Risborough).

[IndustryInsider]

An existing operator, or operators, would be a better option in my opinion.

[didcotdean]

Some clarity in the potential service patterns might be welcome. It seems from reading the minutes on the East-West Rail site that they favour extending the service from Oxford to start back from Didcot (thus replacing the current Didcot-Oxford shuttles, albeit silent on the ones that go on to Banbury), rather than the Cowley schemes. Nothing about services beyond Didcot in either direction along the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line).

There is also mention of the complexity of fitting a sensible E-W timetable around that of the current Chiltern and WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) ones, where a change in one would affect the other two in a new coupling and that creating a clockface timetable would be impossible without alterations to existing service.

[paul7575]

Electrification extension to Oxford would potentially wreck plans to extend EWR to Didcot.  It made sense in the early iterations of EWR service planning, a good few years ago, but surely the present day Didcot - Oxford shuttle should be seen as a temporary stopgap?

Paul

[IndustryInsider]

Electrification extension to Oxford would potentially wreck plans to extend EWR to Didcot.  It made sense in the early iterations of EWR service planning, a good few years ago, but surely the present day Didcot - Oxford shuttle should be seen as a temporary stopgap?

It should be seen as a stop-gap, but I guess if it is going to continue then it makes more sense as part of a Didcot-Oxford-Milton Keynes/Bedford service than it does now as a little shuttle service with the odd extension to Banbury.

I've said many times that extending it to Reading is a bit barmy IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) and the powers that be should be looking at westwards from Didcot towards Bristol.

Let's just get the thing built - who knows how many hurdles are still to overcome.

[didcotdean]

Oxfordshire County Council - a member of the consortium - has expressed a desire for Oxford-Didcot to be four trains an hour in the past. Whether their aspirations really count for anything or could be accommodated is another matter.

[paul7575]

Oxfordshire County Council - a member of the consortium - has expressed a desire for Oxford-Didcot to be four trains an hour in the past. Whether their aspirations really count for anything or could be accommodated is another matter.

That would probably be OK, if four local services can be fitted in, (presume they wouldn’t all stop everywhere), but if there was a limit of only two I’m not sure if EWR would be the preferred service to extend.

Paul

[eightonedee]

It should be seen as a stop-gap, but I guess if it is going to continue then it makes more sense as part of a Didcot-Oxford-Milton Keynes/Bedford service than it does now as a little shuttle service with the odd extension to Banbury.

I've said many times that extending it to Reading is a bit barmy IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) and the powers that be should be looking at westwards from Didcot towards Bristol.

Couple of points here-

1 - I sincerely hope that the Didcot/Oxford shuttle is only temporary. Indeed I understood the rationale of the bi-mode/trimode was to restore a proper full stopping service all the way between Reading and Oxford, mitigating the adverse impact of the dreadful decision to cut the electrification to Oxford short at Didcot.

For those of us on the Reading/Didcot stretch, our three main destinations are (in order) Reading, London and Oxford. The service to Oxford has been severely degraded. Even though I find it difficult to look forward to rebuilt 30 year old trains, I hope that at least we can get back to regular and convenient trains to Oxford soon.

2 - I am not so sure that the case for trains beyond Oxford all going west to Swindon/Bristol etc is strong. The potential passenger traffic from the Reading/Basingstoke/Winchester/Southampton/Bournemouth axis surely justifies a substantial part of any southward traffic going east. Reading alone generates considerable volume, and more capacity might encourage more to take the train not the car. I have over the years had a number of regular meeting commitments in Norfolk and Cambridgeshire and used the car to avoid the hassle of crossing London by tube at peak times.

If money was no object, four tracks between Didcot and Oxford would help! 

[IndustryInsider]

1 - I sincerely hope that the Didcot/Oxford shuttle is only temporary. Indeed I understood the rationale of the bi-mode/trimode was to restore a proper full stopping service all the way between Reading and Oxford, mitigating the adverse impact of the dreadful decision to cut the electrification to Oxford short at Didcot.

2 - I am not so sure that the case for trains beyond Oxford all going west to Swindon/Bristol etc is strong. The potential passenger traffic from the Reading/Basingstoke/Winchester/Southampton/Bournemouth axis surely justifies a substantial part of any southward traffic going east. Reading alone generates considerable volume, and more capacity might encourage more to take the train not the car. I have over the years had a number of regular meeting commitments in Norfolk and Cambridgeshire and used the car to avoid the hassle of crossing London by tube at peak times.

1 - From what I’ve so far heard, the Tri-mode 769s will not be used on services to Oxford.  They will be used on Reading to Gatwick trains as well as covering for the loss of 387s to Heathrow Express on the Paddington to Didcot services, as well as possibly some of the Thames Valley branches.  That of course may not be the current plan, or it may be the current plan but will change.  I’ll see if I can find out.

2 - For me, the problem with Reading as a destination is that it is either a new service calling at Didcot and Reading, or it somehow absorbs the current stopping services between Oxford and Didcot and Didcot and Reading.  You will have problems finding paths for the former, and journey times will be badly compromised to/from Reading if the latter - don’t forget Crossrail will make certain cross London transfers easier, though not Milton Keynes admittedly. 

Also if you send a train to Reading to terminate then it takes up valuable platform time until it heads back again.  Send it onwards from Reading somewhere might work, but nowhere immediately springs to mind.

Send them west to Bristol and you open up all sorts of new through train markets.

The best compromise in terms of being a little more adventurous might be to run a Reading/Didcot to Milton Keynes train each hour and a Bristol to Bedford one each hour (not necessarily calling at Didcot).

Plenty of options on the table, let’s hope there’s a bit of imaginative thinking.

[ellendune]

The best compromise in terms of being a little more adventurous might be to run a Reading/Didcot to Milton Keynes train each hour and a Bristol to Bedford one each hour (not necessarily calling at Didcot).

If you don't call at Didcot then it is not a compromise since you make connections from the west very difficult, they either have to double back at Reading or involve a double change at Didcot and Oxford. 

[IndustryInsider]

I don’t follow, Ellendune.  The train will have come from the west and called at Bristol, Bath, Chippenham and Swindon so it would be direct from those stations. Anyone from elsewhere could change onto it at Swindon.  There would be no change to the existing planned IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) service pattern.

You would save 5-10 minutes on through journeys if it didn’t call at Didcot.

[ChrisB]

Some clarity in the potential service patterns might be welcome.

A decade before services start on the whole Oxford-Cambridsge line?

Electrification extension to Oxford would potentially wreck plans to extend EWR to Didcot.

Why? 2tph electric slow & 2tph diesel EWR (fast) shouldn't be a problem. If electrified, signalling headways should be shorter too.

Also if you send a train to Reading to terminate then it takes up valuable platform time until it heads back again.  Send it onwards from Reading somewhere might work, but nowhere immediately springs to mind.

Try Heathrow on the Western Access Link. Oh yes.

[IndustryInsider]

Also if you send a train to Reading to terminate then it takes up valuable platform time until it heads back again.  Send it onwards from Reading somewhere might work, but nowhere immediately springs to mind.

Try Heathrow on the Western Access Link. Oh yes.

That has been suggested before, though personally I’m not sure it would be a very good fit.  Would trains with Diesel engines fitted be allowed to use the Heathrow tunnels anyway, even if not in use as part of a bi-mode train?