Not allowed First class in Crosscountry

[whole diary]

[phile]

I recall an occasion a little while ago when there was major disruption on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) between York and Newcastle on a Saturday, Cross Country refused to assist ny accepting EC tickets due, as they stated, their trains were rammed so would not be able to accomodate additional passengers.

[TaplowGreen]

Well.....I've had a full reply from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) enclosing rail vouchers equivalent to the fare for the entire journey - very generous bearing in mind that the only real hardship was a lack of 1st class accommodation between Plymouth and Exeter!

[JayMac]

An excellent result there TaplowGreen!

Poor form from XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) that they are 'continuing to investigate....'

[cogload]

Sit tight and hold your ground, if you were told at Plymouth to do this then you can take that at face value. Get the TM^‡(resolve) full name, depot and no and make it clear you will be writing in, if push comes to shove insist they call the BT Police.

[chuffed]

These names may be useful if you want to try an approach from the top down. I also had reason to do the same with North Somerset Council when my first email was not responded to in 10 days. An email to the chief exec got the matter sorted in a couple of hours.




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Having trouble with Cross Country Customer Services ? Go to the top!

^ on: January 24, 2013, 01:57:22 PM ^
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An email to the Cross Country Customer Service Director (jhiggins@crosscountrytrains.co.uk) after not having had a reply for 2 months after being promised a full reply within 10 days. I guessed the email address, and had this response within 24 hours!

I hope someone else finds this information useful.



Jeremy Higgins thanks you for your email and he has asked me to investigate and respond on his behalf.
 
Please accept my sincere apologies for the delay in responding to you.  It is true to say that due to the severe weather conditions our postbag has been unusually high and our response times have fallen behind what we normally achieve. 
 
I can confirm that a letter with your travel vouchers will be sent from our department today.
 
Once again I am sorry for the delay in responding.
 
Kind regards
 
Pamela Johnson
Customer Relations Duty Manager
CrossCountry

[trainbuff]

Sit tight and hold your ground, if you were told at Plymouth to do this then you can take that at face value. Get the TM^‡(resolve) full name, depot and no and make it clear you will be writing in, if push comes to shove insist they call the BT Police.

The TM does not need to give full name or depot. He/she is an agent for Crosscountry, or indeed this equally applies to ANY Train Operating Company. He/she does however have to give you their first name and of course, you should take note of the service you are on. Contacting Crosscountry directly if need be.

There are occasions when Great Western advise customers to use other Companies services....but fail to ASK the other rail company making Advance tickets invalid if Great Western Only.

It is also worth pointing out that 2 and a half 1st Class carriages will NOT fit into 24 seats on a Voyager!

If there are more than 24 1st class tickets from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) AND the train manager knows he has lots of XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) 1st class passengers traveling a long way who are/will get on he/she may have a point. Exeter to Edinburgh is more than twice as long a journey as Exeter to London.

I am not saying that is right, but it is a point worth making when the XC customers would otherwise be entitled to a refund and I suspect FGW would not pay for that!?

Just playing Devils advocate here!

[JayMac]

There are occasions when Great Western advise customers to use other Companies services....but fail to ASK the other rail company making Advance tickets invalid if Great Western Only.

As far as it concerns the customer this is irrelevant. An instruction has been given to a passenger to use alternative services. The passenger is then following the direction of member of railway staff, and is covered contractually by the National Rail Conditions of Carriage. They should not then be inconvenienced because of a breakdown in communication between TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company). That is a matter for the companies to resolve without impacting in any way on the passenger.

ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here)'s National Rail brand strapline: Britain's train companies working together.

[thetrout]

There are occasions when Great Western advise customers to use other Companies services....but fail to ASK the other rail company making Advance tickets invalid if Great Western Only.

As far as it concerns the customer this is irrelevant. An instruction has been given to a passenger to use alternative services. The passenger is then following the direction of member of railway staff, and is covered contractually by the National Rail Conditions of Carriage. They should not then be inconvenienced because of a breakdown in communication between TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company). That is a matter for the companies to resolve without impacting in any way on the passenger.

ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here)'s National Rail brand strapline: Britain's train companies working together.

I agree fully with bignosemac on this one. If I was travelling as a layman passenger, If an 'Authorised Person' were to tell me to board a particular service, then I would sit in the class of accommodation stated on my ticket.

An 'Authorised Person' has given me permission to use train Y instead of X and I would surely then be covered by the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage)? This could be extended to the ruling on Authorised Persons given permission to use First Class with Standard Class Tickets.

If a TM^‡(resolve) then stated that I could not sit in First Class due to discrepancy between companies. Then I'm sorry but that is not my problem, concern or anything to do with me. If the 'Authorised Persons' cannot do the job properly when I have paid for a service and entered into a contract with the Railway for the purpose of Travel, I couldn't care less whether it meant that someone wasn't going to get a seat between Plymouth and Exeter. I would be running late by that point already. If I was occupying a reserved seat then that's fair enough, again if all seats were reserved in First Class then fair enough. However if another Pax boarded at Totnes and couldn't get a seat, TOUGH! You don't pay for a seat with a ticket, merely the right to travel by train or alternative means at the TOC's discretion.

Sorry to put it so bluntly. But that's the rules. I wonder how this would have been dealt with in the days of British Rail and ICGW and ICXC...?? I thought as much?

Just goes to show the major flaws in Privatisation. Also I think that ATOC strapline is laughable and very economic with the truth in quite a few cases!

ICGW = (InterCity Greater Western)
ICXC = (InterCity Cross Country)

[Chris from Nailsea]

In the meantime, lest we forget our manners, may I offer a warm welcome to our new member 'cogload' - and thanks for posting your suggested course of action! 

I'm also interested to note:

The TM^‡(resolve) does not need to give full name or depot. ... He/she does however have to give you their first name ...

Is that actually the case? 

[devon_metro]

In the meantime, lest we forget our manners, may I offer a warm welcome to our new member 'cogload' - and thanks for posting your suggested course of action! 

I'm also interested to note:

The TM^‡(resolve) does not need to give full name or depot. ... He/she does however have to give you their first name ...

Is that actually the case? 

Staff have to wear name badges, however I'm led to believe that they may choose any name they wish. Data protection or something along those lines!

[grahame]

Staff have to wear name badges, however I'm led to believe that they may choose any name they wish. Data protection or something along those lines!

I think it's more along the lines that their work name doesn't have to match their home name - in case they feel they may be stalked / subject to abuse if (for example) they enforce rules in a way which upsets passengers.   Or equally - if they're helpful and have an unusual name, they may find themselves getting questions sent to their homes.  I can understand the desire to be - fully - off duty in some roles.

[thetrout]

Interesting comment there. That's just made me think of a certain member of staff, who I've seen at a station I sharn't name wearing at least three different name badges in the past... They also happen to be an RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))

[trainbuff]

Yes indeed everyone. ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here)'s position is clear and that position is correct. The XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Guard should contact their customer service number to check out this position. I am sure mostly that this will clear things up. If however the delay is a cancellation of TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s (Train Operating Company) service AND the Ticket is TOC specific it is the responsibility of THAT TOC to get the passenger to their destination! I said at the end of my post I was playing 'Devils Advocate'.

However 1st Class is 1st Class. If mutual acceptance or specific ticket acceptance is agreed you are entitled to that class of travel. The Guard on this occasion could have done better methinks!

My first point however is true. The member of staff does not have to give surname or depot. But can if they wish.

Lastly, I also forgot my manners too! A warm welcome to Cogload as well!