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Author Topic: Taunton to Romsey and return  (Read 17305 times)
Wilf19
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« on: February 27, 2013, 11:20:58 »

Tomorrow (Thursday 28th Feb) I have to travel to Romsey and back from Taunton. Normally when I do this route I travel from Taunton on the 07:06 changing at Westbury and return via the same route and a long cold wait at Westbury.

On this occasion I need to be home earlier in the afternoon/evening for various child related taxi service duties. I plan to travel out as usual on the 07:06 from Taunton and come back leaving early afternoon. Looking at National Rail enquiries it shows a return leaving Romsey at 13:21, but changing at Temple Meads rather than Westbury then getting into Taunton at 15:44, which  - despite being slightly long winded - fits perfectly.  Moving onto the Trainline website it doesn't show that service, First Great Western shows a routing also leaving Romsey at 13:21 but changing at Salisbury and Exeter! Now that is mad, a nice train ride I admit but I won't have time for that tomorrow.

Cutting to the chase would a 'normal' anytime return (currently ^32.50) from Taunton permit traveling back via Temple Meads? Is that covered by the 'Any permitted' route specified on this ticket?

Thanks in advance
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ChrisB
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« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2013, 11:47:19 »

Try specifying the route (adding a via) in Trainline - it should tell you if two tickets are required - if so, it's not a valid routing. (which I suispect it isn't)
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Southern Stag
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« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2013, 12:41:54 »

Checking in the routeing guide a Taunton-Romsey ticket would not be valid via Bristol Temple Meads. It is valid via Honiton and Exeter, as the FGW (First Great Western) website has offered, but it is a bit of strange route to take, being quite slow. However it would perhaps be useful if you were making an Exeter-Romsey journey. You could start and end your journey short at Exeter on a Taunton-Romsey Anytime return, and save ^7.40 on the cost of an Exeter-Romsey Anytime return.
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Wilf19
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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2013, 13:55:36 »

Thanks for the replies. The TrainLine gives an error message if I try to specify via Temple Meads so that backs up theory that it's not a valid route. Maybe I'll try the Exeter/Honiton another day when I have more time!

Off to the station this evening to see if they can find a way of getting me home on the Temple Meads train.
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Wilf19
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« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2013, 14:17:21 »

Actually I've just noticed that when I drill down into the route details for the return via Temple Meads on the National Rail Enquiries website it does actually say "You need to buy more than one ticket for this journey". If all else fails, read the instructions!
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JayMac
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« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2013, 14:22:30 »

Others are correct about it not being a permitted route to travel via Bristol on a Taunton-Romsey Anytime Return.

However, a Taunton-Southampton Anytime Return (Route: Salisbury) is valid via Bristol Temple Meads. This is priced at ^40 and I believe will be the cheapest way to do what you wish.

For routeing purposes, both Taunton and Southampton are routeing points so we can go straight to the maps and see which routes are valid, taking note that they must travel through Salisbury to comply with the route restriction on the ticket and that you actually wish to travel to Romsey.

For journeys between Taunton and Southampton you need to look at the following Routeing Guide maps or map combinations: CE, SS, WE+BB, WE+CE, WR+BB. For the purpose of your journey Wilf19, we need only concern ourselves with the first two maps.

On your outward journey you wish to travel Taunton-Westbury and change. That is allowed by Map SS. That passes through Salisbury and onward to Southampton via Romsey.

On your return journey you wish to travel via Bristol. That is allowed on the return portion of a Taunton to Southampton Anytime Return by virtue of Map CE. Romsey is between Southampton and Salisbury on that map, you travel through Salisbury, complying with the ticket's routeing restriction, and onward to Bristol to change for Taunton.

Finally with the Taunton-Southampton Anytime Return (Route: Salisbury) you are free to start/end or break your journey at any intermediate station on a permitted route. So it's fine to use the ticket to Romsey.
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grahame
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« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2013, 14:23:25 »

Out one way ... back the other.  Take a look (I've not got a chance, but others might) to split at Bradford-on-Avon or Bath Spa.  Bath / B-o-A to Taunton tickets are valid (at least some of them) via both Bristol and Castle Cary, so you should be able to to the trip with different out and back routes on return tickets rather than singles.

Ah .... and BNM has just posted a really elegant solution!
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JayMac
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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2013, 14:29:02 »

I did look at some split fares as well, but could find nothing helpful that would beat a through ticket to Southampton.
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Wilf19
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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2013, 17:09:57 »

Thanks very much for the info bnm, that helps me a lot, off to the station this evening to attempt to purchase that ticket!

cheers
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JayMac
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2013, 17:12:51 »

You're most welcome Wilf19. I'm just glad you logged back in and saw my suggestion before heading of the station.

Incidentally, as you are buying this evening, you may even be able to bag seat reservations.
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bobm
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2013, 17:22:25 »

Only be able to reserve seats at Taunton if you go before 19:00.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/SCHEDULE%2017%20-%20December%20%2712.pdf
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swrural
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« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2013, 17:23:54 »

Just to check whether I understood this.  Wilf19 can do what he wants but it will cost him ^7.50 extra? (40 - 32,50).

Are these fancy maps available to the public?  
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Wilf19
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2013, 17:33:36 »

I probably won't bother with a seat reservation, I've used the 07:06 quite a bit over the years and find that if I wander down the back to coach B or A I can usually find a free seat - or a seat that is reserved after Westbury - quite easily, famous last words. Even coach E usually has  a good number of free seats on that train. I can usually find a seat on the Westbury - Romsey and v.v train as well, although that usually involves getting someone to move their bag that has, of course, paid for a seat! All bets are off on a Friday evening however.
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Southern Stag
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« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2013, 18:08:11 »

Are these fancy maps available to the public?  
http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-settlement-plan/routeing-guide

They aren't the easiest things to get your head round at first though. There are instructions how to use them on the webpage.
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JayMac
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« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2013, 18:16:00 »

Just to check whether I understood this.  Wilf19 can do what he wants but it will cost him ^7.50 extra? (40 - 32,50).

Are these fancy maps available to the public?  

What Wilf19 wasn't able to do with a Taunton to Romsey ticket was travel via Bristol. So we had to go looking for alternatives and I always try to ensure the alternatives are the same price, or not much more expensive. In this particular case, I think that Taunton to Romsey should be valid via Bristol, seeing as their are more journey opportunities that way, what with the service via Westbury having long gaps in the timetable or poor connections. Unfortunately the Routeing Guide disagrees, so we have to find a workaround that isn't too expensive.

Every pair of stations on the UK (United Kingdom) network has Permitted Routes that can be taken when using a ticket marked 'Any Permitted'. There may be more than one Permitted Route. There are also pairs of stations that may have fares that are only valid via a particular point en route, as is the case with the Taunton-Southampton (Route: Salisbury) fare I suggested to Wilf19. Those may also have more than one Permitted Route. Advance Purchase tickets don't come under the scope of the Routeing Guide as they are 'Booked Train Only' and you must follow the itinerary as booked.

First, an advertised through train is always on a Permitted Route, no matter what route it takes.

Second, the shortest route is always a Permitted Route, as is any route that up to 3 miles longer than the shortest route. Determining shortest routes isn't always easy however and even the automated systems can be tripped up by this.

If you wish to travel by a route that doesn't satisfy those two conditions then there are a couple of options open to you. You can follow the route on an itinerary given to you by a booking engine, or booking office clerk. Alternatively you can consult the Routeing Guide to determine all the Permitted Routes you can use. Or ask someone to consult it on your behalf. Although that's probably a fruitless exercise at a station. They'll just use their Journey Planner software which is based around fastest journeys, and even if via points are entered it is unlikely to give up all the Permitted Routes.

Your right to travel by a Permitted Route as defined in the National Routeing Guide is codified in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage part 13(a)(iii), which is your contract with the Train Operating Companies.

Using the Routeing Guide is not easy. It's a fiendishly complex set of documents that took me many months of studying before I was confident enough to offer advice based on it. There is a third-part unofficial tool out there that may be of assistance in determining Permitted Routes, but even with that it's helpful to have read the Routeing Guide documents first.

That tool can be found here: http://www.trainscanbecheaper.info/

If you really want to immerse yourself in the National Routeing Guide then the set of documents can be found here: http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-settlement-plan/routeing-guide

Good luck with those documents. Fiendish doesn't begin to describe them.

I may look to compile a 'sticky' topic about the Routeing Guide on the 'Fare's Fair' board in the coming weeks. I'm hanging fire at the moment because ATOC» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) are in the process of beta testing an online Routeing Guide that may be included on the National Rail Enquiries website.




In some ways, the old rule: 'Any Reasonable Route' was far easier. There's little doubt that the OP (Original Poster / topic starter)'s Taunton to Romsey journey via Bristol would be seen as 'reasonable' by most people. The problem with the old rule though was one person's definition of 'reasonable' was another person's 'taking the p***'. It was mainly for that reason that the National Routeing Guide was drawn up.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 18:21:46 by bignosemac » Logged

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