The Golden Hind on a Friday evening....

[whole diary]

[Southern Stag]

We never seem to get this problem at Waterloo on pick up only trains at Clapham Jcn (Gatwick pax) Woking (Heathrow pax) to Exeter.

I note they don't bother in the reverse direction except the first ex Exeter train, but solve it by just not stopping at either!! (You have to change at Basingstoke).

Perhaps it is because there are so many trains to and from Woking?  I've never worked that one out but there must be a reason.

The Exeter trains call at Woking and Clapham Junction in both directions. The Salisbury trains skip Clapham Junction but still call at Woking. Clapham Junction is pick up only away from Waterloo and isn't advertised on trains or at Waterloo. All fast trains which call at Clapham Junction are pick up only away from Waterloo but there are always a couple of people who travel anyway in my experience. Towards Waterloo services are not set down only at Clapham Junction but are still not advertised on the boards at Clapham Junction so there aren't many people joining the trains anyway. Woking is a full stop in both directions, there's only a few Weymouth services in the evening peak which are pick up only at Woking. The London-Exeter services provide a useful connection for passengers heading from Clapham Junction to Guildford, Haslemere and Portsmouth by changing at Woking which wouldn't be possible if it was a pick up only stop.

[paul7575]

There are periods of an hour or so in both peaks where no fast trains at all call at Clapham Jn, the 2.5 minute headways (at 24 tph) on the SWML^▸ (South Western Mail Line) can't allow for calls to be made there.  (That's the main line fast side on SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s platforms, the same problem doesn't apply to the SN or Windsor sides of the station.)

Paul

[adc82140]

Wouldn't it be easy enough to have a revenue sting on board just after departing Paddington? The train has a first stop advertised as Taunton, and is clearly marked in timetables as pick up only at Reading. Therefore no Reading ticket holders should be on board. 

For the sake of fairness, it should be warnings all round the first time, but then repeat the exercise a week later and start issuing excess fares to Taunton or writing out MG11^▸ (Form to take a statement for use in court) forms, as appropriate.

Or how about emphasising in the onboard announcements pre departure that Reading tickets are not valid, and train won't necessarily stop at Reading 

[Super Guard]

Sorry, bit late now, but 1803 is Platform 4 tonight formed off late 1724 arrival.

[Super Guard]

Wouldn't it be easy enough to have a revenue sting on board just after departing Paddington? The train has a first stop advertised as Taunton, and is clearly marked in timetables as pick up only at Reading. Therefore no Reading ticket holders should be on board. 

For the sake of fairness, it should be warnings all round the first time, but then repeat the exercise a week later and start issuing excess fares to Taunton or writing out MG11^▸ (Form to take a statement for use in court) forms, as appropriate.

Or how about emphasising in the onboard announcements pre departure that Reading tickets are not valid, and train won't necessarily stop at Reading 

To be fair, if someone is insistant on getting on, I tell them i'm not going to man-handle them off, but don't blame me if something happens, we don't stop and they end up in Taunton... they usually get off then 

In my opinion no TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) would be prepared to pay the part-cancellation fee to actually run straight through a station without stopping for revenue purposes.

I agree though that prior-warning before leaving London that customers for Reading and connections are not valid on this train and subsequent RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))'s walking through would do it.

[swrural]

No you cant program a gate to stop drop off passengers only unless you set the gates to bar ALL tickets FROM Pad.  Obviously this would cause a riot at Reading as there isn't a specific gate array for a specific platform.

You could however set the gate array for the departing platform at Pad to reject all tickets TO Rdg.  This would simply stop anyone boarding with a ticket only to Rdg as the ticket would have to be seen by a Gateline Assistant.

That's what i meant.

[swrural]

We never seem to get this problem at Waterloo on pick up only trains at Clapham Jcn (Gatwick pax) Woking (Heathrow pax) to Exeter.

I note they don't bother in the reverse direction except the first ex Exeter train, but solve it by just not stopping at either!! (You have to change at Basingstoke).

Perhaps it is because there are so many trains to and from Woking?  I've never worked that one out but there must be a reason.

The Exeter trains call at Woking and Clapham Junction in both directions. The Salisbury trains skip Clapham Junction but still call at Woking. Clapham Junction is pick up only away from Waterloo and isn't advertised on trains or at Waterloo. All fast trains which call at Clapham Junction are pick up only away from Waterloo but there are always a couple of people who travel anyway in my experience. Towards Waterloo services are not set down only at Clapham Junction but are still not advertised on the boards at Clapham Junction so there aren't many people joining the trains anyway. Woking is a full stop in both directions, there's only a few Weymouth services in the evening peak which are pick up only at Woking. The London-Exeter services provide a useful connection for passengers heading from Clapham Junction to Guildford, Haslemere and Portsmouth by changing at Woking which wouldn't be possible if it was a pick up only stop.

I was only quoting Exeter services (comparable to the 1803 in intention).  Have you looked at the timetable recently, I wonder?

I did, and everything I wrote was from that.  So, with respect, I don't really know to what you are referring.  We are only talking about rush hour services here for obvious reasons. 

My experience is that, as the 1620 and 1720 are usually fairly rammed, other services may be preferred anyway by Woking pax.

On the Paddington issue, I have no idea where the barriers are, I thought they would be per platform.  Otherwise my idea of per gate programming could not work, clearly.

However, such programming could prevent the lost souls of this world going where they did not intend, so an advantage there.

[Chris from Nailsea]

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) there was a discussion about this some time ago ?

Indeed there was: see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=6496.msg97622#msg97622 et seq. 

[thetrout]

There are also a few W-o-E SWT^▸ (South West Trains) Oddball Services which are first stop Basingstoke particularly in the evening peak

Well out of area and possibly completely off topic. But at Warrington Bank Quay alot of trains that call there for London Euston and in actuality next station London Euston... My advice is simple. Don't get on the wrong train there unless you want to find yourself going 166 miles before being able to remedy it... A certain deceased BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Chairman did something similar too...

[Southern Stag]

I was only quoting Exeter services (comparable to the 1803 in intention).  Have you looked at the timetable recently, I wonder?

I did, and everything I wrote was from that.  So, with respect, I don't really know to what you are referring.  We are only talking about rush hour services here for obvious reasons. 

My experience is that, as the 1620 and 1720 are usually fairly rammed, other services may be preferred anyway by Woking pax.

Sorry I didn't realise you were referring to peak times, in which case a couple of the services are pick up only at Woking. I don't think I've ever taken one of the evening services from Waterloo because of the peak restrictions, but it would make sense for Woking passengers to use other services as they are generally longer than the Exeter trains. And of course in the peak there are no Clapham Junction stops on fast services because there isn't enough capacity to do so.

[vacman]

For the sake of fairness, it should be warnings all round the first time, but then repeat the exercise a week later and start issuing excess fares to Taunton or writing out MG11^▸ (Form to take a statement for use in court) forms, as appropriate.

What would you report them for if MGing them though? I suppose technically byelaw 18 (2) failing to show a valid ticket but no Magistrate would go with it.

[LiskeardRich]

I cant see it being any offence unless you can say they required a outbound to Taunton, and then a Taunton to Reading.
Charging them an excess to Taunton would surely then require a Taunton- Reading ticket to accompany it, if the train should be pick up only at Reading, as in theory they'd need to get back to Reading.

[swrural]

Looks like two singles would be the cheapest way of making a quick return on the 2025?

About ^60 in total?  You can't issue a return on the 1803 it would appear, not standard anyway.

But I am not good with FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s web site.

[EBrown]

Wouldn't it be easy enough to have a revenue sting on board just after departing Paddington?

But why bother? First aren't losing revenue if they have ticket holders on board, so it's not a priority compared to areas where fare evasion is rife.

It's a good idea, but are First that bothered? No.

[vacmanfan]

Once again, if the Gateline is set appropriately, none of the above is required.