Journey Planner 03 February

[whole diary]

[phile]

Because of Engineering Work between Bath and Trowbridge, I was looking at Jpourney Planner re travel from Newport to Salisbury.     One was directed by addtiional services from Cardiff to Bristol (Temple Meads), chabge to bus from there to Bath, change to another bus from Bath to Trowbridge thence change back to train.   There journeys were planned to take round about 4 hours.   The train from Trowbridge to connect into was a Cardiff to Portsmouth starting freom Swindon via Melksham (not stopping there, by the way, GrahamE although calling at Chippenham to cover other Engineering work requirements).
By travelling on a London (Paddington) train from Newport to Swindon and changing there, you could travel all the way by train with just one change rather than 3 changing (including buses).   Now the punch line - a Journey of approx 3 hours !!!
Journey Planner is not quoting the fastest or most convenient journey.

[JayMac]

I suspect the Journey Planner is using the Routeing Guide and that no temporary easement has been programmed into it. Newport - Salisbury via Swindon is not on a permitted route.

Although in this case, it would seem reasonable to travel via Swindon, making the whole journey by train, saving over an hour, and avoiding two rail replacement buses.

I'd suggest asking FGW^▸ (First Great Western) if they will allow travel via Swindon during the engineering works.

[bobm]

May be a total red herring but when I was looking around a fortnight ago for trains between Swindon and Westbury for tomorrow (3rd), the Sunday evening train via Melksham was brought forward from 18:19 to 18:00 and terminated at Trowbridge.  Since then the times have been amended and it is back at 18:19 and runs through to Westbury.  With the changes to the changes perhaps the wider implications were lost?

[Timmer]

I'd suggest asking FGW^▸ (First Great Western) if they will allow travel via Swindon during the engineering works.

Surely if FGW are starting Cardiff-Portsmouth/Brighton services at Swindon then those from Bristol/South Wales can travel to Swindon to pick the train up from there rather than going by bus to Trowbridge?

[JayMac]

You'd think.

But neither booking engines or journey planners have been amended to explicitly permit journeys via Swindon. That's why I suggest asking first rather than winging it.

However, if you should wing it and be excessed fared/UFN^‡(resolve)'d for being off route, I would hope that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would cancel and/or refund any additional payment made/asked for. In all likelihood common sense would be applied by on train staff, but you can never be certain of that!

[bobm]

Just had another look at the planners for tomorrow.  I wonder if there has ever been a through train from Barnham to Swindon before!

[Timmer]

In all likelihood common sense would be applied by on train staff, but you can never be certain of that!

Very true!

This is what National Rail Enquiries has to say about tomorrow's service. Again not entirely clear that you can travel via Swindon using normal route tickets:

Trains between Cardiff Central and Portsmouth Harbour / Brighton

The following changes will apply:

    Trains between Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour / Brighton will start / terminate at Swindon
    An hourly train service will run between Cardiff Central and Bristol Temple Meads connecting where possible into High Speed trains to / from Swindon

   

[Timmer]

Just had another look at the planners for tomorrow.  I wonder if there has ever been a through train from Barnham to Swindon before!

There has. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have diverted Cardiff-Portsmouth/Brighton trains to start/terminate at Swindon a few times now so you can connect at Swindon for Bristol and South Wales.

Also provides Chippenham with a rail service to connect with diverted Bristol-London trains at Swindon.

[JayMac]

Trains between Cardiff Central and Portsmouth Harbour / Brighton

The following changes will apply:

    Trains between Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour / Brighton will start / terminate at Swindon
    An hourly train service will run between Cardiff Central and Bristol Temple Meads connecting where possible into High Speed trains to / from Swindon

   

Although not explicit, that does rather suggest you can travel via Temple Meads and Swindon on a South Wales-Salisbury/South Coast ticket, even though that would normally be further disallowed as you'd be doubling back through Chippenham. But nothing about South Wales - Swindon via Bristol Parkway as the quicker alternative with no double back. 

Someone has failed to do a bit of joined up thinking it would seem. It may even have been possible to save on some Rail Replacement Buses by sending all the South Wales/Bath/Bristol TM^‡(resolve) - Salisbury/South Coast passengers via Chippenham/Swindon. Leaving just the intermediate stops between Bath Spa and Trowbridge requiring a replacement bus service.

I'd like to think the train planners had looked at all the options, but based on what's actually happening I'm not so sure.

[phile]

Bristol to Londons are going via Bristol Parkway (non-stop) as the work is between Bristol TM^‡(resolve) and Trowbridge rather than Bath and Trowbridge.  Summary of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) alterations is rather confusing and hard to fathom out.    Why catch a train from Cardiff to Bristol TM and than change into a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) there for Swindon when Cardiff to Londons are running direct to Swindon.   Going back to my OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter), passengers are directed by 2 buses from Bristol TM

[Timmer]

I remember back in the 90s when the route between Bristol and Bath was closed, Cardiff-Portsmouths were diverted via Swindon and some even via Taunton! Thus maintaining direct services all be it a longer journey. Surveys have shown that passengers would rather a longer diverted journey than having to change onto a bus which is obvious if you decided to travel by train that you wouldn't want to spend part of the journey on a bus.

[Timmer]

I think this ties in nicely with another discussion taking place on another thread where a printed timetable with a pdf online showing today's revised Cardiff-Portsmouth services starting/ending in Swindon with connections from Bristol/South Wales would have been useful.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=11936.msg125796#msg125796

Very few TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) bother to print or put revised timetables online these days with the exception of SWT^▸ (South West Trains) and EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about). East Coast don't bother anymore and they used to be very good.

[phile]

I'm re-visiting my original OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) and have realised if passengers from South Wales tavelling towards Portsmouth were to travel via Swindon on London trains, there would be an overcrowding risk through carrying 2  trains passengers in 1.
This is something I have advocated against in the past which can happen when a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) fail to cover their own services the other side of a block.     As an example when CT were in existence, there was a blockade between Birmingham and Gloucester necessitating the use of buses to replace Nottingham to Cardiff trains..   Passengers were advised to travel on ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC)) services from Gloucester to South Wakes by taking the easy way out.    This even happened on a Rugby day in Cardiff.
Since XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) took ober the route it does not happen as with a Traincrew Depot at Bristol,  they cover up their services between Cardiff and Gloucester

[grahame]

I'm re-visiting my original OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) and have realised if passengers from South Wales tavelling towards Portsmouth were to travel via Swindon on London trains, there would be an overcrowding risk through carrying 2  trains passengers in 1.
This is something I have advocated against in the past ...

I'm not sure on a Sunday ... but I'm used to the South Wales to London services picking up significantly more people at Swindon (heading towards London) than getting off (travelling to Swindon from Parkway and South Wales).  So whilst you are spot in to question the capacity in the doubled up train, it shouldn't be an issue in this case (that's unless there's already an overcrowding issue on those trains on the section east from Swindon on Sunday.  Surely not - it's super offpeak  )

[insider]

This is what the staff have been told....just looks like routing guide glitch....

This is a copy of a weekly engineering email that gets sent every week...without fail to all staff with email.. It is also sent in a slightly nice format on the internal messaging system to all ticket offices and on train staff as wellll.

Note part in RED for this topic and instruction in GREEN

SATURDAY 2ND UNTIL FRI 8TH FEB 2013

(WEEK 45)

THAMES  VALLEY AREA


ALL DAY SUN 3RD FEB

Relief lines closed between Ladbroke Grove and Dolphin Jct, trains over main lines.

FROM 2100 SAT 2ND FEB UNTIL 0035 SUN 3RD FEB
FROM 0810 SUN 3RD FEB UNTIL 0445 MON 5TH FEB

Relief lines closed between Reading New Jct and Reading West Jct together with platforms 9,10,11 & 16 at Reading. Possession extends to Tilehurst East Jct 2310 Sat - 0030 Sun and back to Twyford West Jct and through to Tilehurst East Jct 2300 Sun until 0445 Mon

FROM 0035 UNTIL 0810 SUN 3RD FEB

All lines closed between Twyford West and Tilehurst East Jct / Southcote Jct.
Trains start / terminate at  Twyford with replacement road transport operating between Twyford and Reading Rail Air.

ALL DAY SUN 3RD FEB

Slow lines closed between Redhill and Gatwick Airport. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services start / terminate at Redhill, customers able to use other operators services to / from Gatwick Airport.

ELSEWHERE

FROM 2350 SAT 2ND FEB UNTIL 1550 SUN 3RD FEB

All lines closed between Thingley Jct and Bristol TM^‡(resolve) and between Bathampton Jct and Bradford Jct. HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) services diverted via an alternative route not calling at Chippenham or Bath Spa.
West services to / from Portsmouth Hbr / Barnham divert to / from Swindon, calling at Chippenham, and continue to operate between Cardiff Central and Bristol TM.  A single West service to  Weymouth  starts from Trowbridge.

Limited Replacement road transport operates as follows :

Swindon to Bath Spa non stop, Chippenham to Bath Spa / Bristol TM, Trowbridge to Bath Spa calling Bradford Upon Avon and Bath Spa to Bristol TM with some journeys calling intermediately. Also between Bath Spa and Avoncliff via Freshford and Bradford Upon Avon and return.
At Bath Spa coaches will use the BUS STATION adjacent to Bath Spa Stn
At Bristol TM coaches will use the LOW LEVEL CAR PARK.
 
Customers travelling from Trowbridge and south thereof to Bristol TM and beyond, and V V, MUST be advised to travel via Swindon. Suitable On Train and Station announcements to be made please.

Customers travelling to  / from Chippenham from the London direction to use the amended Portsmouth Hbr services for travel between Swindon and Chippenham and return.
ALL DAY SUN 3RD FEB

All lines closed between Arundel Jct and Brighton are closed. FGW services start / terminate at Barnham with replacement  transport in place to / from Brighton.

ALL DAY SUN 3RD FEB

All lines closed between Evesham and Worcester SH. FGW services start / terminate at Evesham/ Cheltenham Spa. A shuttle train service also operates between Worcester SH and Hereford. Replacement road transport operates between Evesham and Worcester FS via Worcester SH.

SUN 3RD FEB UNTIL 1300 (NOT ALL DAY AS SHOWN ON AEN 85)

All lines closed between Cardiff Central and Swansea are closed. FGW services start / terminate at Cardiff with replacement road transport operating between Cardiff Central and Swansea.

MONDAY TO FRIDAY NIGHTS 4TH - 8TH FEB
 FROM 2150 UNTIL END OF SERVICE EACH NIGHT

Lines between N Abbot and Paignton are closed, trains start / terminate at N Abbot, replacement road transport operates between N Abbot and Paignton