Telling passengers about the splitting of trains

[whole diary]

[Worcester_Passenger]

On New Year's Day, I travelled from London to Worcester on the 15:41 departure (the 15:51 re-timed on account of engineering works), which wasn't our usual HST^▸ (High Speed Train). Instead it was a 3-car class 166 and a 2-car class 165.

At Oxford we had the usual faffing about while they (a) uncoupled the two units and (b) moved the Cotswold line passengers out of the back two cars and into the front three.

Why isn't it possible for this to be advertised on the departure boards at Paddington? When I travel with other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company), I occasionally encounter displays like "please travel in the front 4 cars for A, B and C". Why does this seem to be so difficult for FGW^▸ (First Great Western)?

The same comment applies to CrossCountry, when they run double Voyager trains but only the front half will continue beyond Bristol (or Newcastle, going north).

Is there some facility missing from the displays that FGW and CrossCountry use?

[thetrout]

On New Year's Day, I travelled from London to Worcester on the 15:41 departure (the 15:51 re-timed on account of engineering works), which wasn't our usual HST^▸ (High Speed Train). Instead it was a 3-car class 166 and a 2-car class 165.

Without trying to sound at all rude... I think you've answered your own question. The usual was turbotutioned Agreed though, It could perhaps be handled better. In particular the 23:38 from Bath Spa - Frome is normally front 2 or 3 coaches only depending on what unit is at the front. Monday - Wednesday is not normally an issue. But on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights try telling that to a platform full of drunks once the train arrives. They then all try and pile in the back 2 or 3. The joined up set then runs all the way to Frome with the rear carriages empty. I believe they can't use the full set as the Platforms at Freshford, Bradford-on-Avon, Trowbridge and Frome aren't long enough for 6 coaches. Frome can just about get 5 coaches but the driver has to be spot on the mark.

The same comment applies to CrossCountry, when they run double Voyager trains but only the front half will continue beyond Bristol (or Newcastle, going north).

Is there some facility missing from the displays that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and CrossCountry use?

I'm not sure on that. But CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) for XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) frequently used to advertise: "First Class at the Front/Rear" so you'd stand on the platform accordingly only to find out it was at the opposite end once the train arrives. Also I believe because XC is such a large geographic franchise they may not know what toys they have to play with. So a booked 5 car might turn up as 2x 4 cars... Has happened several times before

[trainer]

On Southeast trains where much splitting/joining takes place hourly, they seem to have no problem in being very clear about which portion of the train to join for the outer sections of the route.  It seems that in our area we don't have the facility to inform passengers of a change to formation out of the timetabled plan.  Some time last year in the peak at Temple Meads the Cardiff - Taunton  train was shown on the displays as composed of four coaches for the ten minutes leading up to its arrival and as it was travelling along the platform.  I don't know what happened after that as I joined the scramble to board the two coach 150 that actually entered the platform and formed the onward service.  I hope two coaches had not been lost in the previous hour of the journey from Cardiff.

[eightf48544]

Was ever thus. Spent many nights at Victoria shoveling the drunks into the right part of the midnight to Brighton/Eastbourne. Getting them to stay in the right part was always a problem.

[grahame]

"Front 4 coaches for Caterham, rear 2 for Tattenham Corner".   I remember my youth catching trains from Charing Cross, and every half hour the Caterham / Tattenham Corner train left.   Always seemed very clear to me, and I suspect that there were very few problems with people being in the wrongpart of the train ... but then traffic was mostly regular passengers, for whom the railway journey was a part of daily life ...

"Front 2 coaches for Bristol, rear 3 coaches for Cheltenham" and let's add "front coach only for Yetminster, Chetnole, Thornford and Avoncliff, third coach for Melksham".  And that was a recipe for nearly every group joining the train asking where to get in for ... Yeovil, Bath, Chippenham, Swindon.   With extra confusion caused by the fact that what came into the platform at Weymouth at the front left at the rear.

With knowledge that there's a potential issue - which we appreciated before the summer 2011 TransWilts trial service to Weymouth - these things can be planned for;  we had volunteers helping direct people onto the train, we went up and down the train letting people know that they were in the section for Bath / Bristol, or Chippenham / Swindon / Cheltenham, and to my knowledge no-one ended up unexpectedly in the wrong portion. 

Splitting a train en-route isn't necessarily a problem, provided that you do tell people.  The worst chaos we had in the summer of 2011 was when the decision was taken, after departure from Weymouth, to send the front portion to Cheltenham and the rear portion to Bristol.  5 carriages of day-trippers, many with buggies and pushchairs (which in effect means they only have the mobility of disabled customers), all having to move from one carriage to another.   Happy days - it was all done with goodwill, save for the overcrowing on the TransWilts portion after it had left Westbury.

[CLPGMS]

I joined the same train as Worcester_Passenger, but at Oxford and on 28th December.  The screen at Oxford showed "Formed of 5 coaches", which it was when it entered the station.  A local announcement was made that passengers should join the front 3 coaches and there was a rush along the platform.  The train was pretty full. 

[inspector_blakey]

One word: headphones.

In SWT^▸ (South West Trains) territory there are loads of different workings that divide/attach en route, esp on the West of England line (often 6 cars to Salisbury, of which the front three will go forward to Yeovil/Gillingham/Exeter) and the Weymouth route, where trains often run at 10 cars to Bournemouth then divide with the front five proceeding to Weymouth.

This is clearly advertised on the station boards at every station en route, backed up (usually) by plenty of guard's announcements, but half the time the punters haven't read the boards and have spent the journey with their headphones plugged in so still aren't in the right portion of the train, leading to a bit of a panic when it actually divides...

[paul7575]

I think it is fair to say the announcement systems are perfectly capable of dealing with splitters either detaching part of a long train, and those going forward to two different routes, when they are a regular part of the timetable. A visit to Waterloo, or Salisbury, would show this happening routinely.  I think there are even a few three way splits at Salisbury where the train is for Exeter, Bristol, and the rear 3 to depot.

One of the 'information problems' I see though is at those stations (such as Southampton) where the actual split occurs, this is where the incoming train's info (e.g. 'Weymouth and Bournemouth' + calling pattern) takes up the whole 3 line PIS^▸ (Passenger Information System) display - so it hides the info for the second train - the rear portion.  This seems to be self inflicted but presumably a big limitation of the signalling system, which doesn't see the rear portion until it pops up after the uncoupling - and the PIS is corrected for the first train now being 'Weymouth'.

If the system was able to announce the two outgoing portions as separate trains before they'd arrived there'd be a lot less shuffling about the platform.  

Paul

[Network SouthEast]

The other interesting aspect of the Southern/Southeastern/SWT^▸ (South West Trains) splitting services is that on the 375/377/444/450 stock it is possible to have the interior and exterior on-train display screens denote to passengers the correct part of the train.

Southern and Southeastern display the carriage number on the screens, whilst SWT have a message telling people to move down/up the train if they are going to a destination their portion isn't going to. However, the Electrostars and Desiros have one advantage over the Turbos - it is possible to walk between coupled trains without being stopped at a station.

[IndustryInsider]

Southern and Southeastern display the carriage number on the screens, whilst SWT^▸ (South West Trains) have a message telling people to move down/up the train if they are going to a destination their portion isn't going to. However, the Electrostars and Desiros have one advantage over the Turbos - it is possible to walk between coupled trains without being stopped at a station.

There is, sadly, no facility on the new Turbo APIS system to show any indication of splitting trains either externally or internally (via displays or automated announcements) when you enter a route code.  Therefore any on train information has to come from manual announcements from the driver or TM^‡(resolve).  It's one of the shortcomings of the new system, but perhaps a future software update would allow such information to be displayed? 

Paddington's CIS^▸ (Customer Information System)/PA^▸ (Public Address) system does usually advise 'front train only' information when it's a planned service, but I'm guessing if it's an unplanned alteration (as in the original post) then it depends on manual intervention otherwise it'll say nothing.