Another interesting quote on fares

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

So why is the Anytime return from Swindon to Paddington 76p per mile? (^117 for 2 x 77 miles).

Or the Anytime Return from Westbury to Paddington via Newbury at 79.6p per mile. (^152 for 2 x 95^ miles)

[grahame]

All other journeys I could find averaged around 40p per mile even for journeys upto 250 miles for ^100 or less.

So why is the Anytime return from Swindon to Paddington 76p per mile? (^117 for 2 x 77 miles).

Because the fare scales were re-jigged when the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) were initially introduced, with a premium fare payable for the premium, long distance routes.  Swindon is the first station out of the South East area, so you'll find lower fares into London from Bedwyn, Salisbury, etc, to the south, and from Oxford, Moreton-in-Marsh and Evesham to the north, and from Didcot to the east.

It's a bit ironic that these premium rate fares for fast new trains have remained for so long that they're still applied (with that same premium balance) to the same trains .... now amongst the oldest still running on the rail network.  

Or the Anytime Return from Westbury to Paddington via Newbury at 79.6p per mile. (^152 for 2 x 95^ miles)

Yep ... HST premium again!

[TonyK]

Je ne sais pas, mon ami, mais je crois <<Oui!>>

[thetrout]

Well here is my European Rail Comparison. I'll take Spain as my example as I have some knowledge on parts of their railway. I'll also quote singles only for the ticket prices. I've converted the prices based on the exchange rate on: 05/01/2012 @ ^1 = ^0.82 / ^1 = ^1.23

Madrid Atocha or Charmartin* - Alicante - Approx 264 Miles - Quickest Method: Train. Cheapest Method: Drive.

Stock: Alvia Electric InterCity 155mph Tilting Trains

Trains Per Day: Monday, Saturday and Sunday, 7 Trains: Tuesday - Friday. Fastest Train: 3:11 (Except Saturdays) Minutes. Slowest Train: 4:11 (Saturday Only). Average Weekly Journey Time: 3:27.

Rail Fares on renfe.es website day before travel (Spanish Rail Operator): Turista (Standard Class) ^60.90/^49.53 - Preferente** (First Class) ^94.40/^76.78 One Way.

Madrid City - Alicante City by car: Via A-31 and AP36 (Latter is a Toll Motorway with Further Distance @ 268 Miles) 4:03 Or via A-31 and A-3 (No Tolls and Shorter Distance @ 260 Miles) 4:09. Times assume good road conditions.

Driving Cost: Based on an Average Distance of 264 Miles, a Vehicle doing 35 MPG and Fuel @ ^1 Per Litre: ^34.29


Madrid Atocha or Charmartin*** - Murcia - Approx 250 Miles - Quickest Method: Drive. (Even on the "free" Motorway) Cheapest Method: Drive.

Stock: Altaria Diesel Loco-Hauled InterCity 125mph Titling Trains

Trains Per Day: Monday - Friday, 2 Trains Saturday and 4 Trains Sunday. Fastest Train: 3:11 (Except Saturdays - 4:19) Slowest Train: 4:31 Mon-Fri Only (Saturdays: 4:22 and Sunday: 4:29). Average Weekly Journey Time: 4:21

Rail Fares on renfe.es website day before travel (Spanish Rail Operator): Turista (Standard Class) ^47.00/^38.23 - Preferente** (First Class) ^72.80/^59.21

Madrid City - Murcia by car: Via A-30 and AP36 (Latter is a Toll Motorway with Further Distance @ 254 Miles) 3:48 Or via A-30 and A-3 (No Tolls and Shorter Distance @ 247 Miles) 3:54. Times assume good road conditions.

Driving Cost: Based on an Average Distance of 250 Miles, a Vehicle doing 35 MPG and Fuel @ ^1 Per Litre: ^32.47


Alicante - Lorca - Approx 90 Miles - Quickest Method: Drive! Cheapest Method: DEFINITELY THE TRAIN!!!

Stock: 3 Car Diesel Train with 1 WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority)) - No Buffet/Trolley Refreshments Service. Refreshments available from Vending Machines and Small Bar at Murcia where a change of train is normally required.

Trains Per Day****: 10 Trains Monday, 15 Trains Tuesday - Friday, 9 Trains Saturday and Sunday. Fastest Train: 2:31 (Monday - Friday. Saturday and Sunday: 2:36) Slowest Train: 3:36 Saturday and Sundays Only (Monday - Friday 3:01). Average Weekly Journey Time which here doesn't tell the full story: 2:58 As the high majority of Monday - Friday Trains complete the journey in 2:36. Saturday and Sundays the figure is: 3:36

Standard Class Fare Alicante - Lorca: ^5.45/^4.44 (Prices correct as of March 2012 Haven't been back to Spain since then). No Preferente Class (First Class)

Standard Class Fare Murcia - Lorca is the same price as Alicante. Despite most likely needing to change trains at Murcia and you can only travel via Murcia when using Renfe Cercan^as Services. This is a bit on an anomaly as you can travel between Lorca and Alicante; a distance of 89 Miles. For the same price of 38 Miles between Murcia and Lorca OR 50 Miles between Murcia and Alicante.

Sussed it yet? Well Renfe Cercan^as use a Zonal Fares system similar to London Underground. Murcia is in Zone 1 whereas Alicante and Lorca are both in Zone 6 both at the opposite ends of the Zone. Similar to London Underground where it would be the same price for Zone 1 - 6 e.g. Upminster (Z6) - London Victoria (Z1) as it would be from Upminster (Z6) - West Ruislip (Z6) Where entry into Zone 2 for that journey would be a minimum (Changing at Shepherd's Bush, Gospel Oak and Barking OR Shepherd's Bus, Clapham Junction and Whitechaphel) but you're much more likely to use a service via Zone 1 where only a Change at Mile End would be necessary. In the real world I know you'd use a National Rail service for most of that example. But I was laying the example of the Fares Structure for the Alicante - Murcia - Lorca Route.

Alicante - Lorca by car: Via AP-7 1:33 Assuming good road conditions. My experience is you're looking at closer to 2 hours! Based on an Average Distance of 90 Miles, a Vehicle doing 35 MPG and Fuel @ ^1 Per Litre:: ^11.69


* Free Transfer from Madrid Charmartin - Madrid Atocha via Local Renfe Cercan^as (Change at Madrid Atocha - Station)

** - Includes: Complimentary Meal, Coffee and Chocolates, Drinks (Soft, Hot and Alcoholic), Refreshment Hot Towel & Newspapers. Also access to Renfe Club Lounges from the Departure Station ONLY and no entry until 2 hours or less until the booked train time. Yes they do enforce this one!

*** Ticket Valid for boarding at Madrid Charmartin (Starts Here) or Madrid Atocha (Calls at the Cercan^as Through Platforms - The InterCity Platforms are Dead Ends)

**** 1 InterCity Service runs Alicante - Lorca (Barcelona - Lorca Taglo Service). I have not included this train in this section. But it is the fastest train and requires no changes. Journey Time: 2:13 and Prices: Turista (Standard Class) ^23.20/^18.87 - Preferente** (First Class) ^30.70/^24.97 - On this train, First Class gives you little more than the benefit of a wider - reclining seat. Food/Drinks are available for purchase from the Buffet Car.

[swrural]

Here is a recent Dutch standard walk on single fare.
Schiphol Airport to Naarden (24 by road, about the same by rail) ^3.90 (^3.12).  Price per mile 13 pence.

By the way Schiphol is not pronounced 'Ship - oll'  but Skip-oll.  The 'k' should be given a gutteral 'clearing the throat' sound which is difficult to relate using phonetics.  Amazingly (and disgracefully) both the Schiphol Airport announcer and NS train recording announcer pronounces it correctly in her own language but not in English, on the basis, I suppose, that English (and German) speakers could think she was talking about somewhere else.

[Not from Brighton]

Hereford to London via the Cotswold Line, anytime single ^41.50, 150 miles (or thereabouts) thats 28p per mile. And, since it takes three and a quater hours it's only 22p a minute. Bargain.

[ellendune]

Transport minister: Train fares are ^too expensive for me^

1 February 2013 | By Asa Bennett

Transport minister Earl Attlee made a frank admission as he tried to defend the level of train fares to MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament), but had to admit that they were ^too expensive for me^ and had forced him to cancel a day out at a motor show.

The 56-year-old Tory peer, who earns ^63,537 as the government^s House of Lords spokesman on transport, said he ^could not afford^ the prices for on-the-day tickets.

He also admitted that the variety of different ticket types was confusing, telling fellow peers: ^It must be difficult for ordinary passengers to understand how ticket pricing works.^

He made the admission yesterday in Parliament after being challenged about fare increases.

^When we look at just walking up to Euston and buying a ticket, it is very expensive and we don^t compare well with our continental partners. But when we look at advanced purchases we do compare quite well.

^In my case, one day I wanted to go to the National Exhibition Centre in Birmingham to visit the motor show and I could not afford the walk-up fare. Just too expensive for me.^

Regulated fares, including season tickets, increased by an average of 4.2% at the start of the year, with the overall average rise for tickets being 3.9%.

[Brucey]

He should've gone to Marylebone and taken advantage of a "Via High Wycombe" fare.  Very reasonably priced and can be used to Birmingham International (for the NEC^» (National Exhibition Centre - about)) by changing at Banbury.

[TrainSpy]

The original news piece is actually talking about seasons going up. I've just done the maths, and a season works out at about ^20 each way, or just over 16p a mile...