Westbury to London for the day - best price under new fares?

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

Back to the request for alternative fares:

If you are returning on the 1218, 1636, 1733, 1806, 1833, 1945 or 2035 the best splits are:

Anytime Day Return (SDR) Westbury to Pewsey ^8.40
Anytime Day Return (SDR) Pewsey to Newbury ^8.50
Anytime Day Travelcard (ADT) Newbury to London Zones 1-6 ^57.00
Total ^73.90

If you want to return on the 1506 (with this cheaper option also available to use on all the other services to Westbury via Newbury) then you need to be a little more creative and use NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) 19(c) coupled with a Season ticket so as not to be required to travel on trains that call at the split points:

Anytime Day Return (SDR) Westbury to Pewsey ^8.40
7 Day Season (7DS) Pewsey to Bedwyn ^22.60
Anytime Day Return (SDR) Bedwyn to Iver ^21.20
Anytime Day Travelcard (ADT) Iver to London Zones 1-6 ^18.00
Total ^70.20

Both options cheaper than the old through fare but with the potential for hassle, particularly the second option. But they are both perfectly legitimate combinations of tickets and I'd have no qualms using them, particularly after the through fare has nearly doubled in price. Stick it to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) I say for their mistake!




EDIT NOTE: I've edited the second option after finding cheaper splits.

[JayMac]

I've had a response from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) via Facebook:

I am sorry for this, it was a technical data issue that caused the fare to display at the wrong value, this was corrected in mid-December to ^154.50, the fare then increased from January 2013 to the correct 2013 price of ^158.50.

That was the ever dependable Ollie. He further explained that the response was from the 'fares team'. Not the most satisfactory of responses and doesn't really explain anything, but I doubt there will be movement on the fare increase.

[EBrown]

And I got this from Ollie, but no answer from Chris Brock directly:

A data issue caused fare to display at the wrong value. Was corrected in December to ^154.50. Fare then increased today

Change occurred on:

17th December

I also agree that this isn't really a suitable response, I think the supplementary question Bignosemac has asked is correct and I'm sure he will let us know what the response is. I will also let you know what the response I get from Chris is.

Would the 'fares team' be willing to expand on 'technical data issue'? That doesn't really say anything of substance.

[grahame]

At 40.7p / miles (that't the Bedwyn to London peak rate single), the cost of the Westbury -> Paddington day travelcard might have been expected to have risen to 89.50 plus whatever the travel card addon is - say to 98.00 And on this basis, the old fare (up to 17th December 2012) at 80.00 was not wildly out of line with being a reasonable fare from Wiltshire to London, and indeed it was already substantially higher than a Westbury to London (via Salisbury) ticket.

So ... the price goes up from 80.00 to 154.50 on 17th December, then up again to 158.50 on 3rd January - that's a 2.6% rise yesterday.   It's disengenuous to describe the 2.6% rise as an "annual" rise - to me that means a rise that occurs once a year.   I hadn't even realised that some fares had gone up in mid-December.  Can we look forward to other fare rises in another couple of weeks time too??

Read me elsewhere - I am not against some of the lower fares rising to even out and clean up the fare system, and to ensure that the railways make a sensible income that will pay for most of the cost of operating the trains and network. And that includes some of my local fares such as Melksham to Swindon where an extra 25% income per passenger carried will make all the difference.  However, raising a fare by 97% over the space of a month, then claiming in the press that you've stuck to RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) + 1% save for "rounding adjustments", is playing with words and makes it very hard for those of us "in the know" to trust what the spokesman says next time around.

[thetrout]

Well the split I found whilst not exactly a split would allow for all trains between Paddington - Westbury in the peak on the condition they called at Reading which all do apart from one or two oddballs.

As for the combination. I don't think ludicrous covers it. When the original ticket I would suggest purchasing is once you get to Reading going to send you 140 miles in the wrong direction. Trash the ticket there and then Anytime Travelcard Reading - Z1-6

Whilst the split is still not exactly RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) + 1% it would save you ^40 and still be valid for the 15:06 train Grahame wanted

[JayMac]

Could you tell us what tickets you are referring to thetrout?

[thetrout]

I was reluctant to post them in the public forum, would you mind if I put them in FP?

[EBrown]

The full response I've finally received from GW^▸ (Great Western), they decided to randomly send it to the wrong email address... but after some tweeting it got sent to the right one and here it is!

Thank you for your email of 31 December 2013 regarding the recent price change to the Anytime Day Travelcard that you purchased between Westbury and London.

I am sorry that you are unhappy with the recent price changes and I can appreciate that the difference is considerably high. I have investigated the matter with our Pricing Manager and they have confirmed that there was actually an error in the pricing of the Anytime Day Travelcard.

This error was corrected in mid-December, but for anyone who last bought one back in November or beforehand will think that this is a January fares increase. At the end of December once the fare anomaly had been fixed, the fare was then subject to the same 4.2% (average) increase and increased only marginally to ^158.50 in the January fares change.

I trust that this has clarified the matter for you and I am sorry for any inconvenience the increase may have caused. Thank you once again for contacting us and if I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely

Kevin Jones
Customer Services Advisor

[grahame]

Quoting in full so that I don't miss any points

The full response I've finally received from GW^▸ (Great Western), they decided to randomly send it to the wrong email address... but after some tweeting it got sent to the right one and here it is!

Thank you for your email of 31 December 2013 regarding the recent price change to the Anytime Day Travelcard that you purchased between Westbury and London.

I am sorry that you are unhappy with the recent price changes and I can appreciate that the difference is considerably high. I have investigated the matter with our Pricing Manager and they have confirmed that there was actually an error in the pricing of the Anytime Day Travelcard.

This error was corrected in mid-December, but for anyone who last bought one back in November or beforehand will think that this is a January fares increase. At the end of December once the fare anomaly had been fixed, the fare was then subject to the same 4.2% (average) increase and increased only marginally to ^158.50 in the January fares change.

I trust that this has clarified the matter for you and I am sorry for any inconvenience the increase may have caused. Thank you once again for contacting us and if I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely

Kevin Jones
Customer Services Advisor

Many thanks for sharing that feedback, EBrown. So let's see if I understand it.

An Anytime Day Travelcard from Bedwyn (in the east of the county of Wiltshire) to London costs 61 pounds.  The journey to London is 75 miles, (total 150 miles), and lets add 10 miles for travel within London, so that's 38 pence per mile.

Last May (?), extra fares were added from Westbury (in the west of the county of Wiltshire), includine an Anytime Day Travelcard, valid only on routes passing through Bedwyn, at a cost of 80 pounds. The journey to London is around 103 miles (total 206), and adding the same 10 miles for travel within London that works our at 37 pence per mile.

I understand these extra fares were added because previously the only tickets from Westbury via Bedwyn were also valid via Bath Spa, and that was a much longer journey and more expensive route.   An anomilie was being removed.

In December 2012, just before Christmas and at a time when no price increases were happening to most of our knowledge, the price of the ticket from Westbury went up to 154.50 (ouch!) and then it rose again just 2 weeks later to 158.50.  The December rise is stated as curing a fare anomoly - and yet in reallity it has created a fare anomoly, with an Anytime travelcard from Westbury to London costing 73.4p per mile, whereas a travelcard from Bedwyn to London costs 38p per mile.

* However First dress it up, this is a price rise of 98% in a month.  If I were to buy the ticket this month, my bank account would be debitted with 198% of the amount it would have been debitted with at the start of last month. Trying to tell us it's one "change" and one rise is playing with words at best ...

* However First dress it up, they have created an anolomy of fares from the same Wiltshire line to London on the same type of ticket costing between 38p and 73.4p per mile whereas until mid December the fares were close to the same in pence per mile

* First are now charging 97.50 for the round trip of 56 miles from Westbury to Bedwyn if you buy this ticket - that's 174p (yes, 1 pound 74p) per mile.

The trains from Westbury to Bedwyn (and then on to Paddington) generally have plenty of seats available on the Westbury to Bedwyn leg (same back in the evening) so a higher fare is not justified by any "reduction of overcrowding" argument. And I understand that around 80% of income from the franchise goes to / via the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), so that in effect each Westbury Anytime Day Travelcard is an extra 63 pounds of tax to H M Government.

For once, I'm lost for words ... "Rip off"? ... "Taking advantage"? ... "Cynical Price Hike"? ... and First have certainly lost business from me - on trains that are running anyway and will now have empty seats - as a result.  My 80 pounds will be spent outside the rail industry.


_{I note that First replied to your email of 31st December 2013 ... that's impressive, as we're still 340 days short of that date; shows a certain inaccuracy with figures} 

[JayMac]

I'd say buy the splits I suggested. The one with the season ticket. And tell FGW^▸ (First Great Western) what you are doing and why.

Still a tenner of your own to spend outside the industry!

[BandHcommuter]

Anytime Day Return (SDR) Westbury to Pewsey ^8.40
7 Day Season (7DS) Pewsey to Bedwyn ^22.60
Anytime Day Return (SDR) Bedwyn to Iver ^21.20
Anytime Day Travelcard (ADT) Iver to London Zones 1-6 ^18.00
Total ^70.20

That's very useful and I may well take advantage of it. I'm worried that I might get challenged about the split at Iver, since the train doesn't call there, and neither the Bedwyn to Iver return nor the Travelcard from Iver is a season ticket or leisure travel pass. Is this definitely OK?

[JayMac]

Perfectly okay as long as one (and only one) of the tickets is a Season Ticket. With a Season Ticket as one of the splits you don't have to take trains that call at the split points. National Rail Conditions of Carriage condition 19(c) allows this:

19. Using a combination of tickets

You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:

(a) they are both Zonal Tickets unless special conditions prohibit their use in this way. The Ticket Seller will, if you ask, advise you whether you can use a Zonal Ticket in combination with another ticket.
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one ticket to another;
or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/ are not.

May be worth being versed in that condition, as well as carrying a printout of the relevant condition. A staffed station should provide such a printout on request.

[BandHcommuter]

Understood, many thanks 

[grahame]

Understood, many thanks 

You may ... I don't totally. I understand Pewsey and Bedwyn (and that a second journey in the same week can use the same season ticket), but why is the Iver split valid for trains not stopping at Iver?

[eightf48544]

One of the things that really upsets me about modern business practice is the reluctance to admit you've cocked it up, unless it's in the interests of company when it's corrected see Kevin Jones reply.

If the original fare at ^80 (38p a mile ) was a mistake the rise to ^154.50  and then applying the price rise ^158.50 (why the extra 50p? ) was in my opinion FGW^▸ (First Great Western) deliberately being greedy. So just, bite the bullet and  make the fare ^90 as suggested by Graham. Or only sell the splits.

Note: it's not just the railways nobody from Heathrow, BA^» (British Airways - about) or Virgin was available for the Today programme to explain what's going on at LHR, which allowed disgrutled passengers  make them seem totally incompetant. You would have thought that given the advanced warning of the snow/cold weather that they would have had their Press/Customer Services offices on standby and briefed them with latest plans, as it is from what I've gathered the snow seemed  come as surprise.