Foilbules of the National Rail Enquiry Site

[whole diary]

[eightf48544]

Whilst checking that Worcester still has a through Brighton train one of the other options I got was train to Padd then underground to Victoria and then:

    17:17    London Victoria [VIC]    15    Hove [HOV]
   18:21    3    1h 04m    

    null Seating Class Information
    null Cycle policy

     
Southern service from London Victoria to Littlehampton show calling points
   
Train    18:24    Hove [HOV]    1    Brighton (East Sussex) [BTN]
   18:28    2    0h 04m    

    null Seating Class Information
    null Cycle policy

     
Southern service from Hove to Brighton (East Sussex)

Why change at Hove aren't there any through trains from Victoria at that time?
    

[grahame]

Based on fastest journey

14:09 WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) -> PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) 16:27.
Allow 50 minutes until Victoria departure:
17:17 VIC -> Hove 18:21
18:24 Hove -> BTN 18:28

not
14:09 WOS -> PAD 16:27.
Allow 50 minutes until Victoria departure and then next direct train:
17:32 VIC -> BTN 18:35

[Andy W]

out of interest can you go wos rdg waterloo brighton and not bother with tubes?

[Andy W]

or even worcester reading gatwick brighton

[JayMac]

out of interest can you go wos rdg waterloo brighton and not bother with tubes?

That would be allowed according to the Routeing Guide. And the shortest route, which is always allowed (subject to the routeing printed on the ticket*), actually avoids London altogether. This is Worcester-Oxford-Reading-Wokingham-Guildford-Redhill-Gatwick Airport-Brighton.

Full details of all the permitted routes between Worcester and Brighton can be seen here.

The possible routeings for a Worcester SH-Brighton fare are:

• +Any Permitted
• +Evesham/London
• +Not Via Birmingham
• Evesham/Stroud
• Via Evesham

The '+' on a routeing permits travel via London, although you don't have to travel via London with a '+' routeing if another permitted route allowed by the ticket's routeing avoids the capital.  The '+' on a ticket's routeing includes travel on the underground between London terminuses.

[eightf48544]

The '+' on a routeing permits travel via London, although you don't have to travel via London with a '+' routeing if another permitted route allowed by the ticket's routeing avoids the capital.  The '+' on a ticket's routeing includes travel on the underground between London terminuses.

I wonder how many potential passengers know that?

[Brucey]

The '+' on a routeing permits travel via London, although you don't have to travel via London with a '+' routeing if another permitted route allowed by the ticket's routeing avoids the capital.  The '+' on a ticket's routeing includes travel on the underground between London terminuses.

I wonder how many potential passengers know that?

It is printed on the reverse of newer ticket stock.

[thetrout]

Except the trains from Gatwick Airport are awful (FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect)) and much slower than the VIC - BTN services. Which call London Victoria, Clapham Junction, East Croydon and Brighton.

Not sure CLJ counts as a Via London journey though? Route: NOT LONDON tickets are normally valid from Clapham Junction - Watford Junction via Kensington Olympia which was declassified as a London Routing Station quite some time ago.

Incidentally I am also informed that the Class 377 Dual Voltage Stock which have First Class Seating that is Declassified between Clapham Junction and Watford Junction. But not Milton Keynes and Watford Junction... Not sure on how that can be enforced if you sat in there at Kensington Olympia and then beyond Watford Junction...

[Southern Stag]

Except the trains from Gatwick Airport are awful (FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect)) and much slower than the VIC - BTN services. Which call London Victoria, Clapham Junction, East Croydon and Brighton.

Half the FCC trains, so the same 2tph fast service from Victoria to Brighton only call at Gatwick Airport, Three Bridges and Haywards Heath additionally compared to the Southern service. They also run fast from London to East Croydon, from London Bridge rather than Victoria. A lot of the Bedford-Brighton services use 377s as well, identical to the stock used by Southern on their Brighton services.

[thetrout]

Half the FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect) trains, so the same 2tph fast service from Victoria to Brighton only call at Gatwick Airport, Three Bridges and Haywards Heath additionally compared to the Southern service. They also run fast from London to East Croydon, from London Bridge rather than Victoria. A lot of the Bedford-Brighton services use 377s as well, identical to the stock used by Southern on their Brighton services.

Indeed. Sorry, I'd forgotten about the FCC services which run fast Gatwick Airport - Brighton. My experience on that route is limited. But I remember when it was back in Class 319 Days and then state those poor trains were in made me think they needed a bit more than some TLC^▸ (three letter code, or tender loving care, depending on context ) (Tender Loving Care! - Not a Station Code )

[Brucey]

The 319s still frequent Gatwick and Brighton but are in dire need of TLC^▸ (three letter code, or tender loving care, depending on context ).  I actually felt ashamed to take a foreign friend on one of these from Bedford last year.  On this unit, each coach even had a different internal livery and paint job.  It was like a walkthrough of franchises over the years.

[Southern Stag]

They aren't great. They have all been done up inside now. For most think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) 150/1. They're smart enough but still use that nasty 2+3 BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) seating.

[Brucey]

They've been done up so well that I didn't even notice, despite being a regular traveller through the Thameslink core. 

[thetrout]

The 319s still frequent Gatwick and Brighton but are in dire need of TLC^▸ (three letter code, or tender loving care, depending on context ).  I actually felt ashamed to take a foreign friend on one of these from Bedford last year.  On this unit, each coach even had a different internal livery and paint job.  It was like a walkthrough of franchises over the years.

I recall an old GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) Mk3 HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) Carriage which was looking rather tired before it received the "Mallard Treatment" It had seating which i've seen in about 3 different TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s HST sets (Including MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about), Virgin XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and presumably BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) with similar colours to Mk2^▸ (Mark 2 coach) Carriage Standard Class Seating)

Not mention having WiFi with no power plugs... A certain Doh! moment...

Personally, my favorite First Class Seating would have to be Midland Mainline when they refurbished their HST's. Not to mention Standard Class Passengers could get a complimentary Drink as well as Standard. Probably NX's best run InterCity Franchise (c2c being their best commuter I would say) NXEC^▸ (National Express East Coast), NXEA^▸ (National Express East Anglia) and CT were awful!

[JayMac]

Except the trains from Gatwick Airport are awful (FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect)) and much slower than the VIC - BTN services. Which call London Victoria, Clapham Junction, East Croydon and Brighton.

London Bridge - Gatwick Airport (FCC) 28 mins
London Blackfriars - Gatwick Airport (FCC) 35 mins
London Victoria - Gatwick Airport (SN) 35 mins
London Victoria - Gatwick Airport (GX) 31 mins

I wouldn't call that much slower. And the stock used by FCC and SN is often the same (377). Only when a 319 turns up would I say the FCC stock is slightly worse. But when you get a 319/2 on a Bedford-Brighton you'll have 2+1 in 1st Class and plenty of tables in the 2+2 Standard. The more numerous 319/4s are 2+2 throughout 1st and Standard.

The 319/0s and 319/3s are Standard Class only and a mix of 2+2 and 2+3 and will rarely be seen at Gatwick, they being mostly confined to Luton-Sutton services.

I like 319s