London Waterloo - station, services, facilities, incidents - and some quirks / odd facts (merged posts)

[whole diary]

[SandTEngineer]

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) this sort of horizontal split runs all the way through to Clapham Junction - which as most people know doesn't really operate as a junction, more of a 'coming together'... 

Sounds like they might need some significant changes to the signallers MMI...

Paul

Yes, the split continues through Clapham Junction to Earlsfield on the Mains and to Putney on the Windsors.  There is a seperate 'Yard Shunters Panel' at Clapham Junction that interfaces to both Wimbledon panels and to signal a train, for example, from the Mains, through the Yard, and back out to the Windsors requires some complex electrical controls and the co-operation of the three signallers!  I know this because I was Project Engineer for the design team back in 1989-1992

I would guess that when the reconfiguration of the control centre to VDUs comes on stream that it will be easier to implement a different split.

[Timmer]

Platform 13 remains out of use again today so would appear they couldn't fix the problem overnight.

[SandTEngineer]

On the WNXX^▸ (Stored Unserviceable, Mainline Locos HQ All Classes) Forum it was mentioned that the derailed train (once rerailed) was stabled in Platform No.13 so perhaps its still there?

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

I wonder whether perhaps the points were set wrong when the inward working entered P13 some 20 minutes earlier.  This “trailing” of the points would not of course have caused a derailment, but would have damaged them and could have lead to the 0540 outward working derailing when passing over them. 

Partial/complete replacement of the moving bits of the points may be necessary, which they may have decided to postpone for now.

[paul7575]

On the WNXX^▸ (Stored Unserviceable, Mainline Locos HQ All Classes) Forum it was mentioned that the derailed train (once rerailed) was stabled in Platform No.13 so perhaps its still there?

I believe it ran to Clapham Yard yesterday morning about 0815, 5Z50 was the train ID mentioned elsewhere. I think I saw it in P11 on the opentraintimes map beforehand but cannot be sure.

Paul

[paul7575]

I wonder whether perhaps the points were set wrong when the inward working entered P13 some 20 minutes earlier.  This “trailing” of the points would not of course have caused a derailment, but would have damaged them and could have lead to the 0540 outward working derailing when passing over them. 

Not sure about this 'inward working to P13'?  The incident train was leaving P11, there have been various images online showing the majority of the train still in P11 after the event.  Another unit was trapped in P12 after the incident, and P13 was inaccessible, but IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) empty at the time.

This Guardian article shows the aftermath, the barrier train being in the P10 approach:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/16/rail-passengers-second-day-delays-waterloo-derailment

Paul 

[bradshaw]

from the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) journey check

Following a low-speed partial derailment on Tuesday, we are unable to use platform 13 at London Waterloo. Engineers attempted repairs overnight but were unable to complete them without causing significant disruption to morning services. As a result, the work to bring the platform back into use will take place overnight on Thursday 17 August.

[paul7575]

from the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) journey check

Following a low-speed partial derailment on Tuesday, we are unable to use platform 13 at London Waterloo. Engineers attempted repairs overnight but were unable to complete them without causing significant disruption to morning services. As a result, the work to bring the platform back into use will take place overnight on Thursday 17 August.

That's just as you'd expect, (as post #47) - hence P11 and P12 are in use, (trains in there as I write) which indicates that the affected crossing is presently out of action and must be locked in position for 'straight across' moves from P11 or P12 towards the Up Main Relief.

It doesn't mean the original incident concerned trains entering or leaving P13 at all.

Paul

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

I wonder whether perhaps the points were set wrong when the inward working entered P13 some 20 minutes earlier.  This “trailing” of the points would not of course have caused a derailment, but would have damaged them and could have lead to the 0540 outward working derailing when passing over them. 

Not sure about this 'inward working to P13'?  The incident train was leaving P11, there have been various images online showing the majority of the train still in P11 after the event.  Another unit was trapped in P12 after the incident, and P13 was inaccessible, but IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) empty at the time.

This Guardian article shows the aftermath, the barrier train being in the P10 approach:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/16/rail-passengers-second-day-delays-waterloo-derailment

Paul 

Sorry, my mistake, I should have said P11 not P13.

...[later]  and RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) shows the train in P12 arrived after the train in P11, so that's my theory blown out of the water!

[paul7575]

Sorry, my mistake, I should have said P11 not P13.

...[later]  and RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) shows the train in P12 arrived after the train in P11, so that's my theory blown out of the water!

No problem.  We are back on the same song sheet again...   

Paul...

[SandTEngineer]

Interesting article on the Waterloo station changes here: https://www.londonreconnections.com/2017/back-future-relengthening-shortening-waterloo/ and how the new track layout was pre-constructed off-site here: https://www.railengineer.uk/2017/05/17/cemex-constructs-its-biggest-rail-crossing-for-waterloo-station/ with thanks to Paul7755 of this parish for posting that link on another forum.

[stuving]

In that London Connections piece, it says:

In the end, however, the additional closure of platform 10 was required, due to the need for a barrier train at the end of platform 10 and across the Up Main Fast.

I'd been thinking that was at least a likely reason, and also speculating why - probably that plan A for blocking that path (clipping) was impractical for just those bits of a double slip crossing, and plan B (temporarily changing the interlocking) might also be too difficult. The comments after that article suggest the same things, and add that testing any modified interlocking was a big job in itself.

If you look at the way the possession has changed each weekend, not just for the bank holiday, that means that whatever was done to that crossing needed to be undone and redone several times. That would have added to the difficulty of either plan.

During each weekend, the possession covers all four main lines out to Queenstown Road, leaving the passenger service only three tracks - fingers crossed nothing breaks there! It also means all possessed platforms are reached via a sizeable parking area for engineering trains. During the week, only the slow lines are taken over, meaning that platforms above 7 can only be reached via the West Crossings. But that's how trains in service get between the Main Fast Lines and their platforms. I'm guessing that was seen as the main danger point, though not one that can really be avoided.

[paul7575]

Now that they are into the final phases of work the barrier train seems to be long gone, I think it went around 0230 Thursday.   There's now much less activity than before, haven't seen much in the way of yellow plant either.

I expect most of the interlocking testing is done in lineside locations, is there ever a stage when they actually get a handful of real trains out and test all the moves?

Paul

[SandTEngineer]

Now that they are into the final phases of work the barrier train seems to be long gone, I think it went around 0230 Thursday.   There's now much less activity than before, haven't seen much in the way of yellow plant either.

I expect most of the interlocking testing is done in lineside locations, is there ever a stage when they actually get a handful of real trains out and test all the moves?

Paul

It depends on the complexity of the alterations.  In this case, just using my experience and personal judgement; no insider knowledge, that it would most likely be a reconfiguration of the interlocking rather than a total rewire and thus not requiring what we call 'Principles Testing' only requiring 'Functional Testing'.  Most of the alterations would probably be in external equipment housings and thus fairly straightforward......

Test trains are very expensive to hire in and run, so if needed they are usually restricted to one.  I once tested the whole of the new North Pole EPS Depot with a single locomotive (and if I recall correctly, it had some 90 signalled routes).

[paul7575]

Presumably one of the major aspects is the Wimbledon panel changes, because that is very much a hardware panel as opposed to a display?