London Waterloo - station, services, facilities, incidents - and some quirks / odd facts (merged posts)

[whole diary]

[Timmer]

I'm guessing you're not a member of the South Hampshire Rail User Group then?   

LOL^▸ (laughing out loud) Nope

[paul7575]

I guess SHRUG will be wound down now, because he's been pushing the line that everything that ever goes wrong is down to SWT^▸ (South West Trains) for years now. 

(I always assume there are very few members of SHRUG - and they don't deserve the coverage  they get.)

Obviously everything will be perfect again from Sunday, just like it was under BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))...

Paul

[ChrisB]

Further points failures affecting Pl 13....

[IndustryInsider]

I guess SHRUG will be wound down now, because he's been pushing the line that everything that ever goes wrong is down to SWT^▸ (South West Trains) for years now. 

(I always assume there are very few members of SHRUG - and they don't deserve the coverage  they get.)

Obviously everything will be perfect again from Sunday, just like it was under BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))...

Their website, whilst being triumphant about the change, does state that it will take a while for First to unravel the years of bad work from Stagecoach.  I would expect, if it does continue, that positive news will actually get a mention and any negative news will be either not mentioned or they will claim it only happened because of the poor legacy left by Stagecoach.

[paul7575]

Further points failures affecting Pl 13....

To the best of my knowledge that has been the case all day, hence my earlier post. 

Looking at the track diagram, I suspect that if the "double slip (diamond) crossing", (which was the scene of yesterdays incident), is still defective, and it was secured in the 'normal' position for access into P11 and P12, then it would prevent use of P13.

Maybe one of our signalling gurus would like to offer a better opinion?

Paul

[eightf48544]

What ever happened to clipping, scotching and padlocking points in such circumstances?

[IndustryInsider]

What ever happened to clipping, scotching and padlocking points in such circumstances?

I think that's what Paul meant by securing the points in the 'normal' position.

[paul7575]

What ever happened to clipping, scotching and padlocking points in such circumstances?

I think that's what Paul meant by securing the points in the 'normal' position.

Yes - that's what I intended.   I'm sure the RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) report will be interesting in due course.

Paul

[stuving]

SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s excuses page has this:

What's Going On:
A reoccurred points failure affecting platforms 11 and 12, an earlier points failure affecting trains using platforms 20 to 24 at London Waterloo and a low-speed partial derailment yesterday has caused disruption to services. Points are sections of track that allow trains to change from one line to another.

Trains are now able to use platforms 11 and 12 at London Waterloo after engineers investigated a problem with a set of points.

Trains are still unable to use platform 13 at London Waterloo for the remainder of the day following the derailment yesterday. Engineers will continue to make repairs today and overnight tonight so that this platform can be brought back into use.

That appears to say the the "unrelated" points failure yesterday was at the other side (though I can't see any trains that were affected), while this P11-13 issue has happened before. (Could that be what happened last week?) 

It gives the impression that work has been going on at the entrance to P13, though that seems a bit unlikely. More like sitting thinking and planning what to do later? Whether what needs mending at or near that crossing was the cause of the derailment, its result, or due to the rerailing operations is unclear, and may not be 100% clear to those on site.

[stuving]

It was obvious in an earlier post that I didn't know what technology was involved in signalling at Waterloo, more specifically in the interlocking which is what seems to have failed yesterday. The blurb about this upgrade programme said control was going to Basingstoke ROC^▸ (Rail Operating Centre - a centralised location for railway signalling and train control operations for a specific route or region), and even that this would be done starting last year. Yet the Sectional Appendix (June 2017) still says Wimbledon SC. That would still count as remote, I imagine, but what is it?

[SandTEngineer]

Waterloo is a 1990 relay interlocking controlled from Wimbledon SCC^‡(resolve) by duplicated Time Division Multiplex (TDM) remote control and indication systems.  The interlocking is divided into 'Main Line' and 'Windsor' sides and each half is controlled by separate panels at Wimbledon.

I am aware of the possible cause of the incident and rest assured the RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) report will be very interesting reading.......

[SandTEngineer]

Looking at the track diagram, I suspect that if the "double slip (diamond) crossing", (which was the scene of yesterdays incident), is still defective, and it was secured in the 'normal' position for access into P11 and P12, then it would prevent use of P13.

Maybe one of our signalling gurus would like to offer a better opinion?

Paul

Yes Paul, although I don't know the exact reason, its quite likely that that is the cause as the only route to Platform No.13 passes through those points whereas all other (functional) platforms have alternative routes to/from them.

[IndustryInsider]

Do we know whether the derailment has caused any delays to the programme of works being undertaken?

[paul7575]

Do we know whether the derailment has caused any delays to the programme of works being undertaken?

I think if anything the civils work is progressing anyway.  Someone suggested in another forum any knock on effects will more likely be to the stage work on the signalling alterations.

I was looking at various webcam pics over the last few days and (at least to my eye) the platforms and track alterations seem on the home straight now; I think they are about to start the top surfaces of the 3 modified islands.

Paul

[paul7575]

Waterloo is a 1990 relay interlocking controlled from Wimbledon SCC^‡(resolve) by duplicated Time Division Multiplex (TDM) remote control and indication systems.  The interlocking is divided into 'Main Line' and 'Windsor' sides and each half is controlled by separate panels at Wimbledon.

Yes, I've seen the way the panels are currently split, and it suggests an interesting medium term problem because the station and approaches effectively operate now with a split down the middle, with the main line (fast and slow) side covering P1-14, and the Windsor side panel covering the rest including P20-24, and the two signalling diagrams only have limited overlapping information.   

However, in the post Dec 2018 set up, the mainline side spreads out from P1 as far as P18 - with the main suburban apparently having P1-6, and the longer distance trains P7-18.   The Windsor side services will use the same split of approach tracks through Vauxhall, but their trains will only normally use P19-24. 

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) this sort of horizontal split runs all the way through to Clapham Junction - which as most people know doesn't really operate as a junction, more of a 'coming together'... 

Sounds like they might need some significant changes to the signallers MMI...

Paul