London Waterloo - station, services, facilities, incidents - and some quirks / odd facts (merged posts)

[whole diary]

[paul7575]

That engineering train is in P10, isn't it? The very one that (with its approach line(s)) was made part of the possession by a late change in July? So, if there was something in the plans or instructions to signallers that wasn't changed then, so a train leaving P11 could use the line to P10 ...

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) the engineering train has been in that position every day since the work started.  It ought to be impossible to set a route onto the line it is standing on.  Suggestions elsewhere that it is there as a physical barrier to protect the worksite.  So did it work?

Paul

[broadgage]

Looking at the pictures, it seems a possibility that the engineering train was longer than was expected, or it had been moved, and that the passenger train then collided sidewise where the lines converge.
The damage looks limited perhaps suggesting that the driver of the EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) had time to brake, but not time to stop.
The EMU was leaving the station, so it must have arrived safely.

Under normal circumstances, track circuits on the line occupied by the freight should be interlocked with the platform starting signal and thus prevent this sort of accident.
During large scale engineering work, it is possible that the equipment was defective or disconnected, or even that it was BELIEVED to be defective when in fact it was working correctly.

[paul7575]

Looking at the pictures, it seems a possibility that the engineering train was longer than was expected, or it had been moved, and that the passenger train then collided sidewise where the lines converge.

I've been in and out of Waterloo half a dozen times recently and that train has been an almost permanent feature, at the current length.  The line it is on is within the possession until well beyond the point of impact.

It can be seen present, (either with the cab just at the platform end, or just beyond) in a number of online images and videos taken at different times, e.g. this from 8th Aug by Paul Bigland: http://PaulBigland.zenfolio.com/p671909530/e92a8b12d

Paul

[ChrisB]

Causing horrendous problems getting into Waterloo from suburban stations now. A colleague's journey from Surbiton this morning kicked her out at Raynes Park, and eventually told to get a bus to Wimbledon & the tube from there. Expected at 0930, she's still on her way.

[stuving]

Looking at the pictures, it seems a possibility that the engineering train was longer than was expected, or it had been moved, and that the passenger train then collided sidewise where the lines converge.

I've been in and out of Waterloo half a dozen times recently and that train has been an almost permanent feature, at the current length.  The line it is on is within the possession until well beyond the point of impact.

It can be seen present, (either with the cab just at the platform end, or just beyond) in a number of online images and videos taken at different times, e.g. this from 8th Aug by Paul Bigland: http://PaulBigland.zenfolio.com/p671909530/e92a8b12d

Paul

But the engineering train shouldn't affect the signalling, should it? All track within the possession should be off limits, - I'm not sure whether that would involve screwdrivers and crocodile leads these days, but the effect should be the same. The issues concerns the boundary - all track entering the possession should appear "occupied" permanently, and be marked by sticky tape on the panel (or its soft equivalent on-screen).

[paul7575]

But the engineering train shouldn't affect the signalling, should it? All track within the possession should be off limits, - I'm not sure whether that would involve screwdrivers and crocodile leads these days, but the effect should be the same. The issues concerns the boundary - all track entering the possession should appear "occupied" permanently, and be marked by sticky tape on the panel (or its soft equivalent on-screen).

Quite right AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know), but my post was only intended to explain to the earlier poster that that particular engineering train shouldn't have caught anyone out, because this morning it appears to be not significantly different, in either length or position, to any other day.

Paul

[Timmer]

SWT^▸ (South West Trains) are now advising not to travel on their network tomorrow as well as the rest of today:
https://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/disruptions/96AF36FED17149D9BF98F22568F054DC/

[Oxonhutch]

It will be interesting what the RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) come up with as the underlying cause but the barrier train did exactly what it was supposed to do and probably prevented deaths or serious injuries on the ground in the work site. Good use of belt and braces against, what I can only presume, was a perceived risk of incursion - or, more likely, worker excursion.

[CyclingSid]

On the re-direct to Reading; last Saturday I went to Salisbury and found there was a direct train from Reading (P3).Very convenient. On the way back, it appeared that the train sat at Basingstoke for 30 minutes or so, presumably to allow the normal BSK^▸ (Brake Standard Corridor (carriage))-RDG^‡(resolve) and XTC services to maintain their timetable. Apparently there were positive comments from RDG passsengers, plus "you should bring back the Brighton service" (how long ago?).

[PhilWakely]

From my very untrained eye, it looks to me that a set of points leading away from the platform from which the EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) was leaving had somehow been set so that the EMU went into the path of the engineering train

The points must have somehow been set between the time the EMU entered the platform and left it.

[Timmer]

Good news is that platforms 11 and 12 are back in use with just platform 13 closed.

[paul7575]

Good news is that platforms 11 and 12 are back in use with just platform 13 closed.

That looks like some evidence of their having been two issues (as was reported on SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s website yesterday morning), perhaps the points giving access to P13 from the P14 approach track are a separate fault?  P13 is now showing NOGO on the opentraintimes map, and as you say P11 and P12 are seeing normal movements via yesterdays main incident site.

http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/wat

Paul

[Timmer]

That looks like some evidence of their having been two issues (as was reported on SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s website yesterday morning), perhaps the points giving access to P13 from the P14 approach track are a separate fault?  P13 is now showing NOGO on the opentraintimes map, and as you say P11 and P12 are seeing normal movements via yesterdays main incident site.

http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/wat

Paul

Which is a bit of a shame that the advice given was not to travel today. I know with what was known at the time it was the best advice to give, but how many didn't make their journey today based on that advice? In the case of those who have to travel to work probably not many. Perhaps those who were planning a day out to London may have postponed doing so.

Slightly sad that the last days of the SWT franchise will be remembered for the blockade at Waterloo that will benefit the new franchise and not all the many good things that SWT have achieved over the years. Not saying they were perfect but it has been one of the better franchises.

[IndustryInsider]

Slightly sad that the last days of the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) franchise will be remembered for the blockade at Waterloo that will benefit the new franchise and not all the many good things that SWT have achieved over the years. Not saying they were perfect but it has been one of the better franchises.

I'm guessing you're not a member of the South Hampshire Rail User Group then?   

First Group must be relieved it didn't happen just after they'd taken over, as that would no doubt have been a difficult start from which to recover.

[stuving]

Slightly sad that the last days of the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) franchise will be remembered for the blockade at Waterloo that will benefit the new franchise and not all the many good things that SWT have achieved over the years. Not saying they were perfect but it has been one of the better franchises.

I'm guessing you're not a member of the South Hampshire Rail User Group then?   

First Group must be relieved it didn't happen just after they'd taken over, as that would no doubt have been a difficult start from which to recover.

How do you know it won't have?