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paul7575
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« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2017, 11:18:57 » |
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That engineering train is in P10, isn't it? The very one that (with its approach line(s)) was made part of the possession by a late change in July? So, if there was something in the plans or instructions to signallers that wasn't changed then, so a train leaving P11 could use the line to P10 ...
AIUI▸ the engineering train has been in that position every day since the work started. It ought to be impossible to set a route onto the line it is standing on. Suggestions elsewhere that it is there as a physical barrier to protect the worksite. So did it work? Paul |
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broadgage
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« Reply #61 on: August 15, 2017, 11:39:42 » |
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Looking at the pictures, it seems a possibility that the engineering train was longer than was expected, or it had been moved, and that the passenger train then collided sidewise where the lines converge.
The damage looks limited perhaps suggesting that the driver of the EMU▸ had time to brake, but not time to stop.
The EMU was leaving the station, so it must have arrived safely.
Under normal circumstances, track circuits on the line occupied by the freight should be interlocked with the platform starting signal and thus prevent this sort of accident.
During large scale engineering work, it is possible that the equipment was defective or disconnected, or even that it was BELIEVED to be defective when in fact it was working correctly.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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paul7575
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« Reply #62 on: August 15, 2017, 11:51:43 » |
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Looking at the pictures, it seems a possibility that the engineering train was longer than was expected, or it had been moved, and that the passenger train then collided sidewise where the lines converge.
I've been in and out of Waterloo half a dozen times recently and that train has been an almost permanent feature, at the current length. The line it is on is within the possession until well beyond the point of impact. It can be seen present, (either with the cab just at the platform end, or just beyond) in a number of online images and videos taken at different times, e.g. this from 8th Aug by Paul Bigland: http://PaulBigland.zenfolio.com/p671909530/e92a8b12dPaul |
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ChrisB
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« Reply #63 on: August 15, 2017, 11:57:35 » |
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Causing horrendous problems getting into Waterloo from suburban stations now. A colleague's journey from Surbiton this morning kicked her out at Raynes Park, and eventually told to get a bus to Wimbledon & the tube from there. Expected at 0930, she's still on her way.
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stuving
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« Reply #64 on: August 15, 2017, 12:00:56 » |
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Looking at the pictures, it seems a possibility that the engineering train was longer than was expected, or it had been moved, and that the passenger train then collided sidewise where the lines converge.
I've been in and out of Waterloo half a dozen times recently and that train has been an almost permanent feature, at the current length. The line it is on is within the possession until well beyond the point of impact. It can be seen present, (either with the cab just at the platform end, or just beyond) in a number of online images and videos taken at different times, e.g. this from 8th Aug by Paul Bigland: http://PaulBigland.zenfolio.com/p671909530/e92a8b12dPaul But the engineering train shouldn't affect the signalling, should it? All track within the possession should be off limits, - I'm not sure whether that would involve screwdrivers and crocodile leads these days, but the effect should be the same. The issues concerns the boundary - all track entering the possession should appear "occupied" permanently, and be marked by sticky tape on the panel (or its soft equivalent on-screen). |
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paul7575
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« Reply #65 on: August 15, 2017, 12:22:41 » |
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But the engineering train shouldn't affect the signalling, should it? All track within the possession should be off limits, - I'm not sure whether that would involve screwdrivers and crocodile leads these days, but the effect should be the same. The issues concerns the boundary - all track entering the possession should appear "occupied" permanently, and be marked by sticky tape on the panel (or its soft equivalent on-screen).
Quite right AFAIK▸ , but my post was only intended to explain to the earlier poster that that particular engineering train shouldn't have caught anyone out, because this morning it appears to be not significantly different, in either length or position, to any other day. Paul |
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Oxonhutch
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« Reply #67 on: August 15, 2017, 15:32:24 » |
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It will be interesting what the RAIB▸ come up with as the underlying cause but the barrier train did exactly what it was supposed to do and probably prevented deaths or serious injuries on the ground in the work site. Good use of belt and braces against, what I can only presume, was a perceived risk of incursion - or, more likely, worker excursion.
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CyclingSid
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« Reply #68 on: August 15, 2017, 18:20:30 » |
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On the re-direct to Reading; last Saturday I went to Salisbury and found there was a direct train from Reading (P3).Very convenient. On the way back, it appeared that the train sat at Basingstoke for 30 minutes or so, presumably to allow the normal BSK▸ -RDG‡ and XTC services to maintain their timetable. Apparently there were positive comments from RDG passsengers, plus "you should bring back the Brighton service" (how long ago?).
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PhilWakely
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« Reply #69 on: August 15, 2017, 21:29:48 » |
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From my very untrained eye, it looks to me that a set of points leading away from the platform from which the EMU▸ was leaving had somehow been set so that the EMU went into the path of the engineering train The points must have somehow been set between the time the EMU entered the platform and left it. |
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Timmer
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« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2017, 05:56:36 » |
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Good news is that platforms 11 and 12 are back in use with just platform 13 closed.
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paul7575
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« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2017, 10:18:31 » |
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Good news is that platforms 11 and 12 are back in use with just platform 13 closed.
That looks like some evidence of their having been two issues (as was reported on SWT▸ 's website yesterday morning), perhaps the points giving access to P13 from the P14 approach track are a separate fault? P13 is now showing NOGO on the opentraintimes map, and as you say P11 and P12 are seeing normal movements via yesterdays main incident site. http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/watPaul |
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Timmer
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« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2017, 10:59:23 » |
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That looks like some evidence of their having been two issues (as was reported on SWT▸ 's website yesterday morning), perhaps the points giving access to P13 from the P14 approach track are a separate fault? P13 is now showing NOGO on the opentraintimes map, and as you say P11 and P12 are seeing normal movements via yesterdays main incident site. http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/watPaul Which is a bit of a shame that the advice given was not to travel today. I know with what was known at the time it was the best advice to give, but how many didn't make their journey today based on that advice? In the case of those who have to travel to work probably not many. Perhaps those who were planning a day out to London may have postponed doing so. Slightly sad that the last days of the SWT franchise will be remembered for the blockade at Waterloo that will benefit the new franchise and not all the many good things that SWT have achieved over the years. Not saying they were perfect but it has been one of the better franchises. |
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #73 on: August 16, 2017, 11:16:55 » |
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Slightly sad that the last days of the SWT▸ franchise will be remembered for the blockade at Waterloo that will benefit the new franchise and not all the many good things that SWT have achieved over the years. Not saying they were perfect but it has been one of the better franchises.
I'm guessing you're not a member of the South Hampshire Rail User Group then?  First Group must be relieved it didn't happen just after they'd taken over, as that would no doubt have been a difficult start from which to recover. |
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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stuving
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« Reply #74 on: August 16, 2017, 11:31:24 » |
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Slightly sad that the last days of the SWT▸ franchise will be remembered for the blockade at Waterloo that will benefit the new franchise and not all the many good things that SWT have achieved over the years. Not saying they were perfect but it has been one of the better franchises.
I'm guessing you're not a member of the South Hampshire Rail User Group then? First Group must be relieved it didn't happen just after they'd taken over, as that would no doubt have been a difficult start from which to recover. How do you know it won't have? |
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