The writing of timetables, how do they do that?

[whole diary]

[grahame]

The ripple effects are indeed very wide. Just look at how long it takes for services to get back to normal and what has to be changed when (say) there's something that closes the London - Reading line for a couple of hours, and in such an operational situation more dramatic measures can be taken on a one-off basis that could be done daily.  Consider also ...

Doubling of passengers since 1980; highest number of passengers for 60 years (possibly much longer) on a network that's much smaller (did I see someone say "half the route miles") it was at the start of that period, and with many track layouts thinned down.

http://www.railway-technical.com/statistics.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GBR_rail_passenegers_by_year.gif

There is a social need not to remove / retime services for the most part, even where it may seem clear that the greater good will be achieved by redeploying resources.  "What's the point in running these two trains 10 minutes apart on a line that otherwise has an hourly service" may be asked and someone will say "it's because ...".  There are a number of specific lines / areas where this sort of thing arises under paused current franchise bids, and there's places where there's a fear that a new service pattern might not actually be for greater good / a fear of the unknown / a concern for the current user base.

Undoubtedly, there are services which can trace their origins back many years, and much of the reasoning you'll see above.  Yet services have changed at the time of dramatic improvement as that's when you'll more "get away" with it.  Dieselisation and changes with electrification, loss of parcels and mails together mean you can probably see very few services as they were in Victorian times, but you probably can trace service like the Penzance sleeper right back.

[smokey]

I've got a lot of respect for good time timetable planning, it's an art form in it's own right!

But like any form of art, whilst it can be done well, it can also be done badly, very badly.

I like this as a classic problem!

Express train A is working down from "X" to "Z" due into the down platform 1 at "Y" at 12:00 and out at 12:02 and is 22 Minutes late.

Local train B is working down from "W" a branch line that joins the main line and is due into platform 1 at "Y" at 12:15 leaving back to "W" at 12:20 (branch train has been running On Time all day).

Signaller allows train B into "Y" as booked to ensure the branch runs on time and the branch train will be clear of
the Main line before the Express A arrives at the junction with the Branch to "W"

Bit sad for passengers on Express A wanting the branch train for "W"

Even sadder for EVERYONE as train crew to work the 12:20 to "W" are travelling "on the cushions" to "Y" on board the late running express A


I realise this is more a Train Crew diagram issue than time table planning but both are interlinked.

[rogerpatenall]

 There is another spur off the branch which leads to the old S&D^▸ (Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway) Railway which is still in use for Quarry Trains to Whatley.

Not convinced that there was ever any physical connection from Frome to the S&D railway. Lines crossed at Midsomer Norton, (and the line from Witham to Yatton crossed the S&D near Shepton Mallet). There was an embankment built between the two at Pitcombe, near Castle Cary, although, again, I don't think that track was ever laid.

[eightf48544]

After the closure of the S&D^▸ (Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway) BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) put in a spur from the S&D at Radstock to the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Frome Radstock line for coal traffic from one of the then still extant colliries in the Radstock area.

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

The basic problem is that the number of trains on the network has grown over the last 20 years but the infra structure has not been developed to cope with all these extra trains. A quart into a pint pot will not go!

[Electric train]

The basic problem is that the number of trains on the network has grown over the last 20 years but the infra structure has not been developed to cope with all these extra trains. A quart into a pint pot will not go!

In part true also much of the infrastructure that could cope with an increase has been removed, some of which is now being put back in ............. its called progress 

[bobm]

If anyone fancies learning the art of scheduling the latest issue of RAIL Magazine (No 709) has a job advert for Train Planners based with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) in Swindon.  Management trainees starting at 20k and Apprentices at 14k.

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

Ah, but I think these are more like resource managers.  Paths are timetabled by Network Rail (all in Milton Keynes now, I think) in consultation with the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s.  I see timetabling as planning paths for trains of various speed and power characteristics, braking performance, lengths, gauge (ie loading gauge, not 4ft 81/2 in!) - these paths are availabe to the TOCs. So a train planner at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will be involved with ensuring that the resources are available to run the trains they want to run (ie a train and a traincrew), whether they be for the normal timetable (long term planners) or for unexpected events like flooding at Chipping Sodbury (short term planners). 

I think the theory (if not always the practice in an emergency) is that if FGW want to run a train not in the regular timetable (eg a Turbo off the depot to replace a faiure at Padd) then they will be able to use an available but unused path between Rdg and Padd.

   

[Not from Brighton]

Ah, I see, so they plan in extra capacity to cover for unexpected events. Do things ever go so badly wrong that they have to chuck it all out and start from scratch?

[eightf48544]

Interesting question NfB. If there is major disruption then there will be two prorities, getting passengers to their destinations as quickly a possible either by train or buses whilst at the same time trying to get the stock, drivers and other train crew back to their home depots ready to start again the following day. That is the job of control which is why there is move to combine Networkrail and the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) control in the same room (back to BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) days!) so that a co-ordinated plan can be drawn up. That will be done on the fly as it would be impossible to plan for every likely event occurring on the line from Penzance to Padd.

Although there used to be (not sure whether it's still in place a Thames Valley stopping timetable which is basically 2tph all stations Reading Padd hopefully 6 car Turbos) which has been implemented on occasions of severe disruption between those two points.

If there has been a major rewrite of the timetable and it falls apart on implementation there are two things that can be done. Revert to the previous timetabe as C2C did a few years back or do some quick modification to either retime or take out the trains that are causing the problems. It will usually be peak services that are most affected as that when the network is most intensively used most lines have spare capacity Off Peak so the timings may just need adjustment rather than taking out trians.

So timetabling is usually evolutionary with changes over time with the occasional major revamp usually when electrifcation or new stock comes in the Virgin Cross Country Princess timetabe with the introduction of Vomitersl.

You also asked previously whether there were services in the current timetabe which are much the same as in pregrouping days, well most of the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) inner suburban services are much the same as when first electrified by the LSWR^▸ (London South Western Railway) in the early 1900s ie Kingston Loop, Hounslow loop etc.

Also when the Southern/Southern Region ran regular boat trains to Southampton and Dove/Folkstone there were a number of Q paths (as required) in the timetable to cater for late arrival of the ferries or irregular departures/arrivals at Southamton. I remember once getting very cross (in my mind) with a famous journalist who complained that his ferry arrived late at Dover and that the train didn't make up any time to Victoria. I think BR should have replied and said that due to the intensvie use of the lines that this train ran exactly as it should and it was due to provison of Q paths that there was even a train for him at Dover. He'd have been even more upset if the train ahd left on time without him!

[rogerpatenall]

I was one of the lucky ones at the 1966 world cup final. Travelled by train to Wembley Stadium - special service. After the game made our way back to find that all the trains had left on time whilst we were watching extra time. And no, there would be no further trains until Monday.Things are better now for the most part!

[thetrout]

Just corrected a rather dreadful error in my first post. Frome does not get 2 trains an hour. More like 2 trains every 2 hours per direction give or take. It's rather random... Sorry

[Steve Bray]

Today I travelled from Dorking Deepdene to Gatwick on the 1221 service. For some reason, the Sunday timetable from Reading to Gatwick has been altered from the previous xx03 departure from Reading to either xx18 or xx20. Anyway, the 1221 arrived at Deepdene at 1218 (it is allowed 2 minutes longer from Guildford than the normal 17 minutes), and at Reigate we sat at the station for a further 3 minutes (again 10 minutes is allowed instead of 7 or 8 as per weekday). From Reigate it is scheduled to take 5 minutes to Redhill, so the scheduled arrival time is 1236. Yet there is an hourly xx37 from Redhill to East Croydon and London Bridge, and it almost seems to me that the timetable has been designed to deliberately NOT offer a connection, when if the regular timings were applied, the Redaing train could arrive Redhill at say xx31 or 32, and offer a connection. I appreciate that from Redhill, Southern have an xx34 departure south to Gatwick, so ultimately the First service wouldn't reach Gatwick any earlier. It does beg the question why have First changed these timings, especially as now the xx18 or xx20 runs just a few minutes ahead of SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s xx24 Reading to Wokingham train. (And also just to re-iterate that these xx18 and xx20 departures provide appalling connections from Cotswold Line arrivals into Reading.) 

[LiskeardRich]

Whoever writes the time table for Cornwall needs some sense knocking into them. For the last 3 years I have been unable to use the train for work as the West Bound services are so badly timetabled in evening peak.
From Truro there is nothing between 1723 and 1852 heading west to Penzance. The 2 largest industrial areas are a 25-30 min walk from Truro station, and the largest office area also 25 mins walk. All of us who work 9-5 have no choice but to drive or wait nearly 90 mins for a train. Traffic at 9am and 5pm in Truro is gridlocked. I live in Redruth now, and it is taking close to an hour a majority of days, for what can be done in 20 mins if I opt for an hour of overtime in the morning and start at 8. If you try driving into Truro any time after around 0810 you will just sit in traffic,
(my house in Redruth to work in Truro is 7 miles)

Anyone stations east of St Austell, even if they are closer to the station have no west bound options at all at evening peak.

Completely ridiculous is the only way of describing this.