Stratford-upon-Avon to Honeybourne / Oxford

[whole diary]

[stebbo]

Members of the site might find this of interest:

http://www.gwsr.com/news/latest-news/new-life-for-honeybourne-stratford-route.aspx

[stebbo]

And some more. I'm not sure why this particular debate is now being conducted on the website of the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) as I would have thought it has now become suitable for this site. Although I'm a member of the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway, I personally think a debate about re-opening Stratford to Honeybourne and Oxford/Worcester is a bit beyond the scope of the GWR and I think a wider contribution to the debate would be welcome


New life for Honeybourne-Stratford route?
 
article by: Ian Crowder and Richard Tuplin
 posted on: 05 November 2012
 updated on: 05 November 2012



The route south of Stratford-upon-Avon closed in 1976. This view with class 172/3 DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) no. 172345 in the platform, shows the view looking south - the headshunt that disappears from view beneath the bridge was once the main line to Cheltenham. Could the destination of this two-car train be Oxford or Worcester in future, rather than returning to Birmingham? (Peter Tandy) 
 
A study commissioned by Stratford-upon-Avon District Council has shown that there could be potential for re-opening the former route from Honeybourne to Stratford upon Avon to passenger traffic, by upgrading the existing line to storage sidings at Long Marston and re-laying the section from there to Stratford. 

This is the latest of a number of studies over the years, into reinstatement of parts or all of the former Stratford-Cheltenham main line.

Richard Tuplin, editor of the weekly online magazine Railway Herald   reported recently that the ^70,000, 90-page study by consultants Arup into the case for reopening as part of the national network, intimated that the proposals are feasible and that a good business case could be proposed.  The report was considered at a Council meeting on 8 October when further investigation into the feasibility of the proposal was recommended.


 The route is part of the former Great Western line that originally ran from Stratford-upon-Avon to Cheltenham.  The section from Broadway to Cheltenham is of course, owned by the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway, which also has plans to extend from Broadway to Honeybourne.   

The plans include reinstatement of the former South curve which would allow access for trains to and from Oxford, as well as the existing West curve connection to the Cotswold main line.

Railway Herald says that according to Arup, the potential passenger numbers mean that services from Stratford, westwards to Worcester, via Honeybourne and Evesham, and eastwards to Oxford could be profitable almost from the start.
 


The report has recommended that if the route was reinstated, services should run hourly to each destination, and that rather than terminating at Stratford-upon-Avon, could be extended to Leamington Spa, providing a connection with Chiltern Railways.  Such a proposal would potentially bring a half-hourly operation to the Cotswold Main Line. 


 The Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway has been involved in discussions about the proposals which do not comprise the railway's access to Honeybourne station, although some layout changes would be required to accommodate the Stratford route. Reopening of the route could of course, benefit the heritage railway, assuming it reaches Honeybourne station.  Changes at the Stratford end would also be necessary as a section of the town's ring road now runs along part of the route through the town.

The estimated cost of the reinstatement is between ^75 million and ^100 million which would be down to the rail industry and Department for Transport.   

Although the study was undertaken in response to a brief from Stratford-on-Avon District Council, any actual reinstatement of the missing six miles to Long Marston and commencement of services on the nine-mile route from Stratford to Honeybourne, would be down to the industry and the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), and is likely to cost between ^75 and ^100 million.

The route south of Stratford is protected from prejudicial development and a single-track line could be reinstated, according to the report.   


 
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Related links
Arup report into reopening of the Stratford-Honeybourne line (a PDF document)


 

 

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12 comments for ^New life for Honeybourne-Stratford route?^
1.
William Stebbings

 Posted 05 November 2012 at 20:51:32

An issue long discussed on the First Great Western Coffee Shop website to which readers of this could usefully refer.
 
Apart from a number of issues around Stratford and Long Marston identified in the report, wouldn't there be a need to complete the re-doubling of the Cotswold Line at its southern end? The latest re-doubling down to Charlbury helps but if there were greatly increased traffic this would need to be sorted. I also believe that one impediment to redoubling the southern end of the Cotswold line is the age of the current signalling at Oxford, though that might get fixed as part of the Great Western electrification - I say "might" as I don't know if the intention would be to fix the signalling north of Oxford at least to Wolvercote Junction.
 
And there is a strong body of opinion that says redoubling of the Cotswold line north of Evesham is more important than redoubling at the south end - although I personally think the whole line needs redoubling in the near future.
 
And thinking laterally, don't forget that some years ago Great Western Trains used to run a Paddington to Stratford HST^▸ (High Speed Train) ("the Shakespeare Express". An improved srvice using the existing route would help. Sadly, I think this is one area where Chiltern Trains have not been at their best.
 
Or do most Stratford residents travel to Birmingham? There is also talk of a new Stratford-upon-Avon Parkway north of the town to cater for this which could spell doom for the current station and line into the town.
 


2.
Steve

 Posted 06 November 2012 at 00:25:02

William,
 
lighten up, mate, it might never happen!

3.
Andy Bryne

 Posted 06 November 2012 at 09:06:49

Interesting to read on the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) News website this morning that an agreement has been signed with Network Rail for the continued reopening of the late lamented Waverley Route from Edinburgh to the Borders - another line which campaigners fought to keep open and lost.(The line ran originally to Carlisle.)It would now seem that Scotland at least is starting to rebuild its rail infrastructure.
 The GWRS of course was formed by volunteers partly with the aim to reinstate the whole route from Statford to Cheltenham and it has never dismissed that aim although economic and time pressures have conspired to make the task increasingly difficult. I recall being told that BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) wanted ^1million for the entire Honeybourne Line track and sleepers which the Society could not afford in the late 1970s and so it was all ripped up, for a resale or scrap value of around ^250,000, again a sum which would have made eyes water in 1979. (I don't know how factual these figures are - it was what I was told)The real sin of course was that the Govt of the day did not protect the trackbed from encroachment but hindsight is a wonderful thing and heritage railways are no longer the stuff of anoraksia. After all, who on earth would be foolish enough to think that ^1million could possibly be raised to repair a couple of failed embankments - it wouldn't happen, would it?!
Stratford Upon Avon is a world tourist site so a railway from the south would certainly help traffic problems and it would provide a commercial proposition for the GWSR linking Cheltenham to Stratford once more.

4.
William Stebbings

 Posted 06 November 2012 at 09:33:34

Steve,
 I would love to see it happen but I can see some difficulties to overcome. The First Great Western Coffee shop site has more detailed comments as I am not an engineer or expert.
As for the GWSR completing the route, wouldn't that require a massive undertaking? Having a public body remove, for example, the blockage at Long Marston or go round it is one thing; having a private company do so would require huge effort - and cost.
 And I don't think I'm being too serious or otherwise. The railway posted the article on a subject that has interested many others for some time so I merely commented. I don't think it'll happen for a good few years if at all (but I hope I'm wrong).
 Also, talking the other day to another member of the GWSR, we asked ourselves whether a heritage line from Cheltenham to Stratford (see Andy's comment) would be too long for many visitors. Honeybourne would be quite a long stretch - and hard to run - but would allow the connection to the mainline.
 I'd let the government worry about Stratford to Honeybourne.
 And by the way, I recall Honeybourne was re-opened a few years back ostensibly at the time "to cater for the prison at Long Lartin" - whether staff or inmates, they didn't say.....

5.
Dave

 Posted 06 November 2012 at 12:54:50

Reopening Stratford-Honeybourne would be a huge benefit to GWSR if ever we get to Honeybourne. Connecting at Honeybourne would open up the huge markets of Birmingham, Solihull and Leamington. But we need to be realistic - it will be many years before we have any chance of reaching Honeybourne. Not only that, but Stratford-Honeybourne can only happen with a strong rail industry sponsor and a sympathetic government Dept.for Transport. Given the present national finances, that too may be a long way off.
 Meanwhile we need to focus on just getting to Broadway, which in itself would be a big boost to the Railway's finances and public profile.

6.
Mike Bond

 Posted 06 November 2012 at 20:19:05

Poor signalling at Oxford would possibly explain why the 1732 to Evesham is always late out; and then it dawdles along. Yes the single track through Hanborough would be an obstacle to a half-hourly service.
 As someone who enjoys the occasional bike ride on the Stratford Greenway route to Long Marston - could that be retained alongside the reinstated line? Or is there no room for both...
 Of course, Stratford to Oxford was possible 5 times a day (until Chiltern took the service from Thames), although it probably took about 1.5 hours.
 And as for Worcester - again it's already a direct train from Stratford - albeit via Brum and taking 2 hours. Perhaps a circular route could be set up, running in both directions, via Evesham.

7.
William Stebbings

 Posted 06 November 2012 at 20:39:34

Stratford via Worcester - old worse and worse...... I don't think the service exists to serve the tourist community

8.
WJ

 Posted 06 November 2012 at 21:22:58

Report is here: http://democracy.stratford.gov.uk/mgConvert2Pdf.aspx?ID=5656&T=9
 
Preferred option is tunnel under Evesham Rd out of S-u-A; then alongside a realigned Seven Meadows Road; Greenway to be retained on oneside of the alignment with the railway on the otherside -

9.
Andy Bryne

 Posted 07 November 2012 at 09:08:16

I think post No 5 by Dave is a very good summary of the current and likely future situation. The "optimum length" of lines run purely as heritage concerns has always been a somewhat fuzzy notion and it is likely that the maximum length of the GWSR in the form that we know and support today would be from Cheltenham to Honeybourne, where there is a link (vital in my view) to the National Network. I also agree that Broadway will do much to enhance our current operations still further but I know that much money and effort will be needed before we get there, let alone anywhere else. However, I look forward to it!

10.
Frank Adam

 Posted 07 November 2012 at 13:37:44

The Honeybourne to Stratford line ought to be reopened. The advent of Crossrail and Great Western Electrification will bring more people onto the network overall, from locations in Central London and Essex. Assuming Shakespeare Country is a destination then the facilities need to be in place.

11.
Colin Bishop

 Posted 07 November 2012 at 14:21:04

Does this help anyone?
 Invitations to Tender . . .
 http://www.noavonline.co.uk/pdf/Stratford-upon-Avon%20to%20Honeybourne%20Railway%20Reinstatement%20Business%20Case%20Study%20Brief%202012.pdf

12.
William Stebbings

 Posted 07 November 2012 at 17:33:22

First of all, is the Arup report a response to the invitation to tender a report issued by the Council?
 Second, Frank is correct in general terms but the question remains as to whether the Cotswold Line could cope with more trains at either the Oxford or Worcester end without complete re-doubling AND resignalling. I referred in an earlier post to the problems with the signalling at the Oxford end. The Worcester end is even worse as the signalling is still semaphore and I believe, in parts, over 100 years old. To provide the extra services mentioned needs, I think, more than just investment in the Stratford to Honeybourne section and the cost of this needs to be factored in.
 Another point, alluded to in Frank's post is that the government needs to think urgently and seriously about further electrification beyond that already announced to Bristol/South Wales/Newbury and Oxford. But, personally if I was electrifying more railways, I'd spend it on Bristol to Birmingham, Hereford to Birmigham, Newbury and Bristol to Plymouth/Penzance, the Cotswold line, Oxford to Birmingham and Stratford to Birmingham - and as part of the latter I'd wire up Hatton Junction to Stratford (and improve the service to Stratford via the existing route). And I'd probably have to question whether I'd do all this first before grappling with Stratford to Honeybourne issue, which leaves Stratford to Honeybourne a little down the wish list. Oh, and that's without any other electrification in other areas of the country.
Anyway, I'd say the GWR has loads to do just to get to Broadway and Honeybourne
 But could I make a plea that some of this debate be conducted on the First Great Western Coffee Shop website. This is the type of debate that website would welcome

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks for posting these items, stebbo.

Personally, I know absolutely nothing about the subject, but many of our members on this forum would indeed be delighted to offer their comments and suggestions regarding the proposals, I'm sure.

If anyone else wants to join this forum and make a contribution to the debate here, please do so!  Our membership is free and open to all, with a simple sign-up and approval process (which is unfortunately necessary, but only to stop potential forum spammers).

We look forward to welcoming anyone who wants to continue this topic here - or indeed any of our other discussions!

Chris (on behalf of the whole admin team). 

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

As a keen CLPG^» (Cotswold Line Promotion Group - about) member, committee member and Group Treasurer I can say that the CLPG is very supportive of the reopening of the Stratford/Honeybourne link and has contributed to the costs of the recent study. However from what I have read of the report, there would be a lot of hurdles to overcome. Whilst the report says that as a rail project it could be viable, it would only be so if the most optimistic of forecasts of potential business is used. As already mentioned on this thread, the redualling of the CL track between Charlbury and Wolvercote (north of Oxford) would seem to be necessary to be able to operate additional trains between Stratford and Oxford. NR^» (Network Rail - home page) has mentioned this redualling as a long term ambition in the last RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) but currently there is no funding for this and it would not be practical until after the major resignalling of the Oxford area has been completed so realisticly any reopening, if it eventually should get approval and finance would be many years away.  However I would not discount the possibilities of the S/H reopening as strange things can happen if enough politicians and people with power connections are able to pull strings. After all, the recent 20 mile redualling of the CL was deemed as uneconomic and uncommercial after several studies but then suddenly became a viable option just to maintain a then deteriorating reliable and punctual rail service.

[stebbo]

Could it be the Honourable Member for Witney (David Cameron) whose constituency includes Kingham and Charlbury who helped the re-doubling - just as I believe Charlbury was once saved from the chop by a local resident, one Sir Peter Parker?

I agree that Stratford to Honeybourne would be a good line to re-open but I can see difficulties and I for one would like to see more electrification of the existing routes. Stratford to Oxford is currently achievable via Hatton Junction it's just that Chiltern don't support it properly. A decent service to Oxford with (say) one or two through trains to Paddington thrown in - as used to happen - could make a change. I don't know whether Stratford - Worcester would be heavily used; I'd like to hear views on that.

The GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are now seeing the possibility of linking Tyseley to Toddington - which would be great but I think there's stacks for them to do just to get to Broadway in the next few years, let alone Honeybourne. (And you can already get from Tyseley to Honeybourne with a reverse at Oxford)

But would the proposed Stratford-upon-Avon Parkway station out by the A46 by-pass (see other thread) prejudice the continued survival of the existing Stratford station? Could end up like Warwick Parkway which seems to have all but taken over Warwick.

[John R]

I suspect there is rather more inbound (tourist) traffic to Stratford than Warwick, for whom a Parkway station would be no use at all.

[stebbo]

Wouldn't disagree except that the rail service to Stratford from London/Oxford is now so poor that many tourists go by coach rather than rail. Travellers to/from Birmingham are likely to be business commuters/shoppers for whom a Parkway on the A46 would be fine.

But again, this says up the level of service via the existing route. I recall catching the old "Shakespeare Express"  from Oxford to Reading in Great Western Trains days and it had loads of tourists.

The Stratford/Honeybourne/Oxford idea is great but, in my opinion, there are other projects to pursue first and the Stratford/Oxford problem can be overcome in other ways. (Chiltern should be embarrassed for once).

[EverythingGWR]

Interesting debate. As a member of the GWSR, I have no doubt that Stratford is way beyond our wildest dreams but I would heartily support an initiative that began the process of thinking towards a plan that would help us get from Broadway into Platform 3 at Honeybourne while NR^» (Network Rail - home page) funds rebuilding of Honeybourne to S-o-A section. It could all mesh together very nicely for one and all.

Then we could start talking to Cheltenham Council about rebuilding the southern link into the town, Malvern Road and connecting at Lansdown Junction....

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks for posting, EverythingGWR, and welcome to the Coffee Shop forum! 

[mjones]

I agree that the case will struggle if based on Oxford or Worcester to Stratford flows. It isn't really going to progress unless a strategic case can be made, just as Oxford to Milton Keynes has been batted around for years, but didn't get anywhere until its value for providing additional capacity for longer distance routes was identified. So, is it likely that in the future increased demand on the Chiltern line and the Oxford to Leamington route could make it helpful to have an alternative route to Birmingham and Nuneaton?

[CLPGMS]

Several interesting matters arise here.

1. I do not think that Stratford to Worcester would be a particularly large market, but Evesham to Birmingham could well be.  At present, this is only possible via Worcester.

2. I do not recall Sir Peter Parker having anything to do with keeping Charlbury station open.  However, he did help in the campaign to retain the coal fire there, alas no longer used for safety reasons!  Interestingly, the proposal to close Charlbury was dropped in the 1960s when it was found that it attracted more passengers than Kingham, which replaced it in the public notice.  As it happened, all six stations on the list, which were all in Oxfordshire, remained open, albeit with reduced services for four of them.

3. At the time of the Cotswold Line redoubling, Network Rail made passive provision not only for the GWSR to come into platform 3 at Honeybourne, but also for a platform 4 for use by trains should the line to Long Marston, or beyond, be reopened for passenger use. This was mainly relating to a possible major housing development at Long Marston, however. It would involve laying another track alongside the current Long Marston branch with the GWSR taking over the existing alignment almost into Honeybourne station.  Should this come about, I think that the GWSR may need to consider changing its name to Gloucestershire Worcestershire Steam Railway, as it will not go to Warwickshire.

4. By reinstating the east curve at Honeybourne, trains could also access Moreton-in-Marsh from Birmingham, an idea welcomed some while ago by a manager at Central Trains.  It would also shorten the distance between the two major tourist spots at Stratford and Oxford.

5. If an hourly train service in each direction were to run south from Stratford-upon-Avon to both Worcester and Oxford, this would need some double track on the reinstated line itself (part of which is now a cycleway) and on the Cotswold Line.  The lack of double track between Evesham and Norton Junction and between Charlbury and Wolvercot Junction already causes problems with train planning and results in irritating extended journey times.

Anyway, this is probably a long way into the future if the Oxford-Bicester-Bletchley link is any guide.

[stebbo]

Agree there would be a need to complete the redoubling of the Cotswold line but I also understood this requires signalling upgrades at Oxford and Worcester (especially the latter). I know Oxford is to be resignalled as part of the electrification, but will this extend as far as Wolvercote Junction?

I think the proposal for Stratford to Honeybourne includes some provision for double track although the presence of the cycleway and the road layout around Stratford makes this complicated. However, if it ever goes ahead one wants to avoid the complications that the Cotswold line had - and still has to a lesser extent - of bits of single track at each end.

You could be right about Charlbury and Sir Peter Parker. By the way, did anybody think of using a fire guard?

[stebbo]

By the way, this lot could usefully be read in conjunction with the separate topic about Stratford Parkway

[Chris from Nailsea]

Hmm ... 

I have something of a penchant for merging topics on this forum, where appropriate, in the interests of completeness and continuity: would it help with this ongoing discussion if I did some judicious editing?

[stebbo]

Up to the editor although I think they are two different topics  - though related