I'm a little confused when buying train tickets ...

[whole diary]

[swrural]

I have to change trains at Clapham Junction anyway, so I could touch in there.

What I've decided to do is SVR from Bedhampton to Twickenham.  Then Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) PAYG^▸ (Pay as you go) to Hounslow, then Oyster PAYG for the rest of the day.

Still confused at the lack of routeing choices on the SVR.

Excuse my ignorance, what is SVR?

[Brucey]

I have to change trains at Clapham Junction anyway, so I could touch in there.

What I've decided to do is SVR from Bedhampton to Twickenham.  Then Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) PAYG^▸ (Pay as you go) to Hounslow, then Oyster PAYG for the rest of the day.

Still confused at the lack of routeing choices on the SVR.

Excuse my ignorance, what is SVR?

It is a ticket type, actually known as an "Off Peak Return".  I.e. an off-peak ticket whose return portion is valid for 30 days.

There is an acronym table located here.

And on behalf of the forum team, welcome to the Coffee Shop forum swrural.

[swrural]

I have to change trains at Clapham Junction anyway, so I could touch in there.

What I've decided to do is SVR from Bedhampton to Twickenham.  Then Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) PAYG^▸ (Pay as you go) to Hounslow, then Oyster PAYG for the rest of the day.

Still confused at the lack of routeing choices on the SVR.

Excuse my ignorance, what is SVR?

It is a ticket type, actually known as an "Off Peak Return".  I.e. an off-peak ticket whose return portion is valid for 30 days.

There is an acronym table located here.

And on behalf of the forum team, welcome to the Coffee Shop forum swrural.

Thanks Brucey and for the kind welcome.

I looked at the table and it's a 'SaVeR!

Perhaps we could all settle on OPR (I too thought SVR stood for the railway in Bridgnorth!).

Going back to the correspondence, what a faff just to go somewhere the cheapest way.  Would an 'ordinary' passenger have a clue about all these acronyms and cards and so on?  Does it not mean that such passengers are routinely paying over the odds, I wonder? 



 

[Brucey]

Perhaps we could all settle on OPR (I too thought SVR stood for the railway in Bridgnorth!).

Unfortunately that is not possible as .... you've guessed it .... OPR actually stands for a Super Off-Peak Return!

Going back to the correspondence, what a faff just to go somewhere the cheapest way.  Would an 'ordinary' passenger have a clue about all these acronyms and cards and so on?  Does it not mean that such passengers are routinely paying over the odds, I wonder? 

I suppose it all comes down to how you define "over the odds".  I would say being charged a through fare is not over the odds, unless they are sold something they don't need (e.g. an anytime fare to travel off-peak).

[grahame]

Going back to the correspondence, what a faff just to go somewhere the cheapest way.  Would an 'ordinary' passenger have a clue about all these acronyms and cards and so on?  Does it not mean that such passengers are routinely paying over the odds, I wonder? 

You've asked a $64,000 question, swrural   ... welcome to the forum!

I would (personally) define being charged more than the lowest available fare for the journey(s) combination you are asking to make as being charged "over the odds". That's not an exclusive definition, though; I would suggest that not being offered an alternative route / train that's going to make you a saving can also result in being paid over the odds.  But that's subjective.

Just one example

* I ask online for a single journey from Melksham to Hungerford this morning, to arrive for 09:00 and  I'm offered a fare of 54.00 for the 06:37 train, change at Westbury, arrive 07:32

* If I bought Melksham to Westbury for 3.40, and then 28.50 for Westbury to Hungerford, and that's a total of 31.90 I'm paying, same trains.  

* The National Express coach leaves Melksham at 07:45, direct to Hungerford, 9.00 on the day single, arrive 08:55.

The distance by road is 31 miles. via Westbury / by rail, it's about 45 miles.

Which, if any, do you consider to be "over the odds"?

[grahame]

Oh heck - answering my own sub-question ... I thought that Westbury - Hungerford was a bit high / could do better:

3.40 Melksham - Westbury
7.90 Westbury - Pewsey
5.70 Pewsey - Hungerford
=====
17.00

[swrural]

Both astonished and dismayed at such a report Grahame.  I feel this needs further comment but could we move to a new thread (either a general one on, say,  'The innocent passenger confused and conned' or the Melksham thread (I see there is one)?  I see you are admin.

Although clearly I am a transport enthusiast, I am a fairly 'innocent passenger' and the stories I could tell you about hours spent on the internet just trying to book a simple journey from Axminster to - say - Bath, never mind the fares minefield, could keep us going awhile.

I think you were lucky with NE bus by the way, they are not very frequent, like rail, it has to be said.

Apologies to our South Coast friends for hijacking their thread.     

[Chris from Nailsea]

No sooner said than done, swrural!  And welcome to the Coffee Shop forum from me, too! 

I've split these posts off and created a new topic here in Fare's Fair, to encourage further discussion.

[grahame]

Both astonished and dismayed at such a report Grahame ...

Sorry - but you'll find this sort of thing all over the place.   If you feel the headline price is high, shop around a bit.   Here are some further examples (experts may have fun working out the places - I'm showing the principle here!) ...


A to B ...

Out 06:17 via C, D, E, arr 09:29
Back 18:45 via same route, arr 21:59
Anytime return - 185.00
As offered by the booking engine

Bought as 2 tickets - 92.50 (outbound), 32.60 (return, super off peak!), total 125.10
Have to expand the single ticket prices on the booking engine for these
I note that for next Tuesday, Advance single costs MORE on the return!

Out 06:34, via C, F, G arr 10:43
Back at 18:55 via same route, arr 22:37
Offpeak day return - 31.00
Have to know where "F" is, use the back button and put in as a "via" on the booking engine

That last option is, you'll notice, a slower journey and you may be happy to pay more for the quicker transit.  You also have more flexibility in the return on your more expensive tickets, as they're valid for a month and not just for the day.

H to I

Out 06:43, via K, arr 08:50
Back 17:54, via K, arr 19:57
Anytime return - 174.00
This is the default offered by the booking engine

Out 06:02, via J, arr 08:46
Back 17:50, via J, arr 20:34
Anytime Day Return - 71.90
(An anytime return from A to I is also valid, at 57.20, since on an anytime return "You may start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station along the route of travel" and H is between A and I)

L to M ...

Out on direct trains at 05:11, 05:37 or 06:30
Back on direct trains at 17:22, 17:50, 18:22 or 19:22
Anytime return - 71.00

Above ticket NOT valid on 05:21 from L or 19:48 return - also through trains
Anytime return valid on these trains - 146.00
Booking engine clearly offers different prices in this case, train by train

[thetrout]

swrural I feel your pain!

I too frequently spend ages looking for cheaper fares than a standard A 2 B Ticket such as splitting etc. It's often one of the better ways to save money unless it all goes wrong... Also any train where you do split a ticket it has to stop at the split point.

Not so long ago, My Dad went up norff for a business trip and he asked me to sort him out some train tickets for the journey. He had several requirements (of which resulted in a journey personally, I wouldn't take!) He needed to get from Buxton - York and then York - Bristol. He did not want to go via London (Which would've been the way I went on the return leg). It has to be a First Class Ticket, Least Changes as possible and to allow enough time to get back to the local for a skittles match!

Well the tickets I got for him were as follows: Buxton - Manchester Piccadilly Standard Anytime Single (No First Class on Northern Rail) and then 1st Advance Manchester Piccadilly - York @ ^22.00 on FTPE^» (First TransPennine Express - website). The booking engine didn't show any through First Class Advance Fares

On the Return Leg all the prices for a through First Class Advance on North East South West XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Services were over ^150.00 and any half reasonably priced ones not suitable as he ended up back in BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) for 23:00ish.

So I looked at trains via Manchester with FTPE and I managed to bag him a ^15.00 First Class Advance from York - Manchester Piccadilly. Good. Next was one of the things that really I should have sent into Rail Magazine, as this should NEVER work for Advance Tickets (at least a few railway employees say). (But frequently does on XC and 1 specific example on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) but in all truths that example is a First Class Advance and a First Anytime Day Single ).

I punched in Manchester Piccadilly - Bristol Temple Meads and was quoted ^131.00 for the 17:05. But I knew from past experience that splitting on XC does often work, so I punched in:

Manchester Piccadilly - Stafford - First Class Advance @ ^17.50
Stafford - Birmingham New Street - First Class Advance @ ^7.00
Birmingham New Street - Cheltenham Spa - First Class Advance @ ^26.00
Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Temple Meads - First Class Advance @ ^14.00

Total: ^64.00 That's LESS THAN HALF than the through First Class Advance at ^131.00!!!

All tickets booked I must stress WERE FOR THE SAME TRAIN! He never got off it once. Suprisingly, he had the same seat reserved for each ticket...

So had he have booked the tickets or his employer - he'd have stepped onto that train bearing 2 small pieces of card like paper with ^131.00 for a First Class Advance on it and a reservation portion. Instead he boarded the train with 8 tickets and paid LESS than half the price of 1 single ticket. He didn't need to worry about splitting because he didn't need to change trains. I joked that he should pass on a consultancy fee to his employer of ^25 for my time to acquire the tickets because even that would have still been less!!

[eightf48544]

Just goes to prove that the  airline pricng model doesn't work for trains with their more frequent stops rather than most flights to single destination or maybe two. BA^» (British Airways - about) used to do a Milan, Thesseloniki with same plane.

[swrural]

@The Trout

Well, as an interim comment, Your suggestion of consultancy is not so daft.  A fares anorak who advertises 'I will book your ticket for a percentage of the saving', could do very well.  I suppose the following would need to take place. 

Our punter tries to book ticket and reports to consultant via email what he achieved (without proceeding to payment of course).

Consultant then takes over and emails back the better result (if achieved) with bill for his cut.

The story of the day trip fares from Grahame was appalling.  I doubt if I could think of anywhere I would want to go, just for a half a day (after travel) that would cost more than ^20.  I would only do this if I had to, like a job interview or something.

I have managed to get a cheap day return fare from Maiden Newton to Bath for about ^18 (IIRC^▸ ('if I recall/remember/read correctly')) but I have to drive about 15 miles before I can do that.  Admittedly I live in that non-rail twilight zone between Dorchester and Axminster.  Pity the 1845 schemes to join them up never took off!

I fantasise that if Beeching had not happened, I could go from Axminster via Chard and Taunton as my father and mother did on their honeymoon in 1941.

Incidentally, using Transport Direct will often suggest Axminster to Bath via Salisbury (sometimes quickest) .  If you want a laugh, just see what that costs.

[grahame]

I have managed to get a cheap day return fare from Maiden Newton to Bath for about ^18 (IIRC^▸ ('if I recall/remember/read correctly')) but I have to drive about 15 miles before I can do that.  Admittedly I live in that non-rail twilight zone between Dorchester and Axminster.  Pity the 1845 schemes to join them up never took off!

The Heart of Wessex line offers some good fares ... have you come across the Day Ranger ticket at 17.50, which gives you freedom of the line from 08:20 - anytime at the weekend - up to Swindon and in and around the Bristol area too?  And "Groupsave" which lets 4 adults travel for the price of 2, again offpeak, with children at a pound each.  4 adults, 4 children, Swindon to Weymouth together for a day out via Yeovil on a Saturday - 35.00 (i.e. 4.38 each). Same group on a winter Sunday, when there aren't any morning trains via Yeovil to Weymouth, and you'll be asked to cough up a total of 342.00 for super offpeak returns.  Out of curiosity, I looked up the anytime return fares - 276 via Yeovil for the group, or 1044.00 "only for routes passing through Reading".

Frankly, the 35.00 doesn't pay the costs, even for a train with every seat taken with groups and more groups standing.  You end up with the absurdity of it being better for the train operator's bottom line to leave carriages out of use at the weekend that to run a full train which isn't actually required by the franchise, or to have to strengthen one which is.  Part of that's the cheapness, part of it is the dead hand of the franchise agreement which, because of the recession (?) has resulted in lower than predicted incomes ... cutting a long story short, much of the extra money raised by extra trains would go to the treasury anyway. 

[The Grecian]

I'm surprised Axminster-Bath is 34.50, as a journey I frequently make, Axminster-Bristol TM^▸ (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context), is 'only' ^25.90 SVR. It's valid on any permitted route - via Exeter, Yeovil and Castle Cary or Salisbury. The route via Exeter is fastest if you get a good connection at Exeter, but there's only a few a day (you'd need a Manchester rather than Edinburgh service) and it's normally a 40 minute wait. Otherwise there's not much in it with the Salisbury route. If you're going to Bath though you'd need to go via Salisbury or you'd need to buy another ticket.

[thetrout]

Hmmm. But you could split at Bristol as you'd either need to change there or the train you'd be on would stop there anyway. (I can think of only 1 maybe 2 specific trains that don't call at BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) but may run that way )

An Off Peak Day Return BRI - BTH^» (Bath Spa - next trains) would be ^6.70 and a Period Return would be 2 Singles at ^13.20 (Or The First Class Off Peak Return at ^15.10)

But if you were stopping over, you'd be better off with the Axminster Bath Ticket unless you were going via Salisbury and ended short.