Customer Service frustration

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

It's with a heavy heart that I have to report that the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System)/Help Point unit I pictured on 3rd April barely lasted a month.

Shirehampton is again without a CIS/Help Point. Screen smashed. No doubt again the victim of vandalism.

Should there be another replacement that will be number four for a total of around ^50,000 that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have spent at this one station in less than 3 years. Each unit, I'm told, costs in the region of ^12,500.

The decision by Bristol City Council not to install CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) at Shirehampton, with FGW and the Severnside CRP^▸ (Community Rail Partnership) not lobbying harder for the funding, is increasingly looking like false economy.

[BerkshireBugsy]

I notice from my local services that the slightly larger stations on the Newbury to Reafing route (such as Thatcham and Theale) have the overhanging CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) displays but the smaller stations (such as midgham) have the TV type displays

So I have two questions:

From an information supply perspective are the two types interchangeable. So for example at Midgham (and Nailsea I guess) could the tv type displays be replaced by the overhanging ones? Do the overhanging units rely on there being some form of IT network present at the station?


Just curious
What is the initial cost difference?

[Chris from Nailsea]

... for example at Midgham (and Nailsea I guess) could the tv type displays be replaced by the overhanging ones?

Just to clarify: at Nailsea & Backwell Station we do have the overhead CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) displays, and only the very basic help point machines, without screens, on both platforms.

I think you may have intended to refer to Shirehampton, the home station of my learned friend 'bignosemac'?

The problem there is indeed the cost of installing modern CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) cabling to that location, as it's well outside the area currently covered. My understanding is that Bristol City Council has that on their agenda, but it's a question of prioritising limited funding ... 

[thetrout]

I was going to create a new topic, but I think my 'issue' would be best described in this existing thread.

I had a problem travelling back to Frome today. The 09:50 I was to start my journey in Southend left on time but was slightly delayed arriving into Liverpool Street Station. I gather there was a problem as we arrived in Platform 7 which is rather unusual. Nearly always Platform 12 or above.

When I went straight into the underground I was confronted with further delays as it took nearly 15 minutes for any form of train to turn up. When it eventually did we were stop, start, stop all the way along to Paddington. It must have taken just short of an hour! I reached Paddington at 11:33 when I was booked on the 11:45. I had no intention of running for any trains as I am simply not able to at the moment.

Anyhow I sent a tweet to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) asking for the way to proceed if I missed my 11:45 booked train. I'm sorry to say I gave FGW a rather hard time on twitter this morning

I sent them the following tweet which was thus:

@FGW Hi, have an advance ticket from SOV - FRO^» (Frome - next trains). If I'm delayed in the underground I assume I can catch a later train? Eg. 12:06 from PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)? Ta

I was rather taken aback by the following response:

@radioactivshark Hi Dominic. If you are delayed by the underground, then you would have to buy a new ticket, sorry. [name redacted]

My initial thoughts on this were: "WOW" I mean an FOS (First Anytime Single) from London Termini - Frome is ^89.10 (Had I missed the 11:45 I would've paid ^82.50 for a via Newbury Ticket)

Well shortly after that I had SirPlasticPig join the conversation to confirm what I believed to be the correct answer.

@FGW @radioactivshark Incorrect. As ticket started at Southend, as long as Dominic travelled on correct train to London and allowed.../...recommended LU transfer time, he is covered if the LU was delayed. If it had been PAD-FRO, FGW would be correct.

This then got my back up slightly. Because it's not the first time Serco FGW Twitter staff have given me incorrect information (Ducks behind the Buffet Counter from Ollie who will no doubt chip in about the time I thought he had made a typo in a tweet but hadn't at all... )

FGW Initially answered as follows:

@theplasticpig @radioactivshark We will do as goodwill. However, it would be the responsibility of TfL^» (Transport for London - about) and we have no obligation to do so. [redacted]

Good will gesture huh? Well when I booked the ticket on FGW's website, it did not make this clear that if a delay was caused by TfL that I would be liable for costs to a new ticket. Nor does it say that FGW may as a gesture of goodwill allow me to continue making my journey. Because they also may not allow me to continue on the ticket I had purchased.

That's when I jumped on the bandwagon:

@FGW @theplasticpig Hmm. I thought it was what Sir Pig said too. When you book a ticket, you enter into a contract. So if one of the operators suffers a problem supplying the service then passenger should not be liable for extra expense surely?!

FGW Replied:

@radioactivshark @theplasticpig TfL would be responsible for any compensation. But they are not part of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Rail Network. We can only compensate for delays, or allow travel, if its because of trains, not the underground. [redacted]

I got more irate at this point and made the following sarcastic question; but with my business head on.

@FGW @theplasticpig I see. So if TfL are delayed and I miss my booked train I am expected to pay out ^89.10 for a First Anytime Single to reclaim from TfL at a later date? Because that is clearly a nice and fair way to do business with your clients?! :-L

FGW replied:

@radioactivshark @theplasticpig We will try and accommodate where possible, especially if staff are aware of disruption. Just no guarantee.

I left the discussion there as I didn't want to continue ranting and raving when it wasn't really going to get me or anyone else anywhere.


I am at a complete loss here. In my personal opinion I think it's very draconian to ask a passenger to pay for a new ticket for what is essentially IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) a subcontractor cockup. I define TfL as a sub-contractor as they are listed as a method of transport on the travel itinery.

Whilst it may appear I am seriously overreacting to this situation. I think this is worthy of discussion as I cannot be the only passenger customer that's been told this?!

It would also be worth knowing exactly what the rules are should I or anyone reading this forum have this problem again.

Having had a brief skim of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999; FGW could well be in breach under the following categories:

• consumers being subject to unfair penalties.
• consumers being tied into the contract unfairly
• consumers being denied full redress if things go wrong

I use that last one in a liberal sense. As in the case here I am being directed to purchase a new ticket rather than continue with the journey. In my opinion this is not full redress

Further source here (PDF Document):

[LiskeardRich]

TheTrout to put it simply FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Twitter are wrong.

Advance Tickets T&Cs state

If delays occur while travelling, you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey

Source: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46546.aspx

[Fourbee]

I was crossing london during a potential tube strike several years ago to catch an EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) train out of St Pancras. In the end the tube strike did not happen, but in correspondence beforehand I was trying to nail them down on what I should do (obviously I would miss the booked service if the strike went ahead and I stuck to the original itinerary).

Never got a straight answer.

I believe in the past it has been advised to get the ticket endorsed, but this is not mandatory. I would just jump on the next available train now, this is a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)/LU problem not mine (as long as I have left enough time etc.). If I was ever forced to buy a new ticket in this scenario, I would take them to court quoting the relevant act supplied :-)

[JayMac]

Really disappointed today to see @FGW^▸ (First Great Western) giving incorrect information to a thetrout who was travelling with an Advance Purchase ticket, facing a potential delay during their journey, and likely to miss a connection at Paddington.

Both National Rail Enquiries and the rail industry's internal guidelines are quite clear on this scenario:

"If the route is prefixed with a +, the ticket includes the cost of travelling across London on London Underground, Docklands Light Railway or First Capital Connect (Thameslink Route) services as appropriate to the journey." And,

"If delays occur while travelling, you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey."

And the rail industry's own internal guidance on Advance Purchase fares said:

Q22. Can a passenger travel on any other service than the one on which they are reserved, without changing the booking?

A. Once the journey has begun. If the passenger is delayed and the train company or it's partners [are] at fault, which should be checked by [staff] control office, change to a train of the same company is allowed to get them to their destination with the least delay. This is irrespective of the combination of rail tickets held. Examples are:

Through rail and partner tickets for which there is a through bus, tube, ferry or metro fare,"

A Southend to Frome Advance Purchase fare includes use of one of those 'partners', the tube. Ergo, a change to a later train that affords the passenger the minimum of delay must be allowed.

Telling the passenger they need to buy a new ticket is wrong. Just wrong. All they need to do is catch a later train with the same train company.

[John R]

I see the 1145 you (presumably) caught missed the connection at Swindon for Westbury by a long way. What did you do then?

[thetrout]

This:

(Bristol Parkway - next trains)+and+BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains).png" alt="" border="0" />

[thetrout]

From FGW^▸ (First Great Western) by E-Mail this afternoon

Thank you for your email of [redacted]. I was very concerned to learn that one of our colleagues on our Twitter Team misadvised you about the terms and conditions of your Advance Purchase ticket.

Please let me reassure you that we take this sort of thing very seriously indeed. We expect everyone representing our company to be friendly and helpful at all times - particularly when explaining policy or standing by it. We will be following this up with an investigation. We owe it to our colleagues, as well as our customers, to look carefully at things like this before we make any decisions.

Whilst we do take your complaint very seriously, I hope you understand that we have to reserve judgement until we have investigated thoroughly. One of our managers is looking into the situation now, and I assure you we will take appropriate action as soon as we have the full results.

For your future reference if you are delayed because of problems on another service (whether that is a National Rail or London Underground service) I would advise that you speak to a member of train on your delayed train or, if that's not possible, a member of station staff at your changeover station and they will be happy to endorse your ticket to travel on a later service.

I was pleased to read that you were able to travel on your booked train <snip>

[JayMac]

It's always worth seeking out staff to get the ticket endorsed if you've been delayed on a preceeding leg with a through Advance, but it is worth stressing that this is not compulsory.

[JayMac]

Just off the phone with one of my local councillors. Nice of him to call back as promised at the agreed time.

Topic of discussion was the anti-social behaviour and vandalism at Shirehampton station. No promises made of course (none expected) but he will be raising the issue with all relevant bodies. One more voice...

Next up, final draft of the letter to my MP^▸ (Member of Parliament).

[JayMac]

I have been informed that Shirehampton CIS^▸ (Customer Information System)/Help Point 4.0 has been ordered and should be fitted sometime in the next 8 weeks.

50 grand FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have now spent for this one station. Just think of the things they could have done with the money...

[sprinterguard]

I daren't say BNM that it'll be, ehem, destroyed again shortly by whoever feels the need.

[LiskeardRich]

I have to say the service and response speed from "Jess" this morning on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) twitter feed was excellent. I had a response within less than 2 minutes. I bet if I called FGW customer services it would have taken longer than that to get through the "press option 1....etc." automated system let alone any hold time they may have.