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JayMac
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« Reply #76 on: October 09, 2012, 17:52:28 » |
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Robert Peston, BBC» Business Editor, also mentions '18 months' in an editorial piece covering the revelation that the risk in all the bids was incorrectly assessed by the DfT» . He points out that with this news FirstGroup may be less hostile to Virgin continuing to run the franchise for another 18 months. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19881240
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation." "Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot." "Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
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eightf48544
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« Reply #78 on: October 10, 2012, 09:02:58 » |
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Thinking about the mess DaFT» have got themselves into they are going to have problem whenever they let the tender for the WCML▸ .
They can't really give it to First or Virgin unless the process is seen to be totally above board and all the figures are published and available for public analysis. Otherwise the loser will know that they can throw another spanner in the works by going for a judicial review.
So maybe it goes to one of the other bidders by default or this is the painful death of Franchisng as we know it.
Maybe a LOREL type solution instead of a franchise. It would be one answer to the Wolmar question.
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JayMac
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« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2012, 17:10:17 » |
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Maybe a LOREL type solution instead of a franchise. It would be one answer to the Wolmar question.
That get's my vote. London Overground is a concession with TfL» controlling rolling stock procurement, fares policy, branding, heavy maintenance costs and advertising - amongst other things. The operator controls staffing, cleaning, light maintenance and day to day operation for which it gets a fixed fee that is approximately 10% of revenue, with TfL retaining the other 90%. Some risk is still borne by the operator for performance. With the operator's fee being fixed there is no sharing of revenue surplus or shortfall. This is essentially Gross Cost Tendering. The majority of other rail franchises are Net Cost Tendered. The operator takes on most of the revenue risk and the cost risk, and keeps passenger revenue. The tendering authority (or other local authority) may provide a contribution in the form of subsidy. There is usually a revenue surplus/shortfall sharing mechanism ('cap and collar'). The operator controls almost all aspects of the franchise. Fares policy has some input from the tendering authority (regulated fares) as does service provision and rolling stock procurement.
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation." "Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot." "Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
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Oxman
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« Reply #80 on: October 11, 2012, 00:49:29 » |
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There is a huge difference between Lorol and the WCML▸ , or the Great Western for that matter. Lorol is essentially a local service over a small geographic area. Service levels are prescribed by the sponsoring local authority.
Imagine a similar scenario on the Great Western. The DFT▸ would prescribe the services and the TOC▸ would deliver them. If my memory serves me well, that was exactly what happened at the start of the current FGW▸ franchise, and what a disaster that was. There is no room for creativity in a "concession" contract. If the first Great Western contract had been a concession, Cardiff would still have an hourly service.
First Group were set to order new trains and run new services on the WCML - this would not happen with a concession, unless of course you believe that the DFT have the imagination and the guts to specify this as a requirement!
Concessions are good when they are for self contained service groups with a local sponsor, such as Lorol or Merseyside. But I can't see them working (for the benefit of passengers) in larger franchises.
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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #81 on: October 11, 2012, 08:01:14 » |
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There is a huge difference between Lorol and the WCML▸ , or the Great Western for that matter. Lorol is essentially a local service over a small geographic area. Service levels are prescribed by the sponsoring local authority.
Imagine a similar scenario on the Great Western. The DFT▸ would prescribe the services and the TOC▸ would deliver them. If my memory serves me well, that was exactly what happened at the start of the current FGW▸ franchise, and what a disaster that was. There is no room for creativity in a "concession" contract. If the first Great Western contract had been a concession, Cardiff would still have an hourly service.
First Group were set to order new trains and run new services on the WCML - this would not happen with a concession, unless of course you believe that the DFT have the imagination and the guts to specify this as a requirement!
Concessions are good when they are for self contained service groups with a local sponsor, such as Lorol or Merseyside. But I can't see them working (for the benefit of passengers) in larger franchises.
What if local authorities were put in charge of specifying the services, a bit like the way tendered bus services are run (except I think bus operators often own rather than lease their buses)? In fact, could you shift it more towards the way buses/Freight Operators are run with First Group, Stagecoach, Albelo, DB» etc. owning their own stock and bidding for contracts to operate services?
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---------------------------- Don't DOO▸ it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
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Southern Stag
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« Reply #82 on: October 11, 2012, 11:58:45 » |
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But which local authority specifies the contract for the Great Western franchise? There'd be so many different local authorities with so many competing interests that the only appropriate body would be the DfT» , and DfT micro-management is something everybody is hoping will be phased out.
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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #83 on: October 11, 2012, 20:33:13 » |
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But which local authority specifies the contract for the Great Western franchise? There'd be so many different local authorities with so many competing interests that the only appropriate body would be the DfT» , and DfT micro-management is something everybody is hoping will be phased out.
I'm not saying it would work, just wondering whether it could (or, in other words, whether privatisation could work in some form, given that the current system doesn't, or if bringing back British Rail is the only way to make the system rational). It probably wouldn't work if it was a contract for the whole franchise, but I don't think bus services are tendered in packages either, it is done or a per-service basis (sometimes not even that, eg. service 460 Carmarthen - Cardigan which is split between two operators). Could that work, or would you need Regional Transport Consortia or Passenger Transport Executives in charge of tendering the services?
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---------------------------- Don't DOO▸ it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
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Super Guard
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« Reply #85 on: October 11, 2012, 23:13:31 » |
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This quote from the report will be exactly why Virgin will have the extension, whether it is financially right or not... MPs▸ fear that if DOR is handed the line it will set a precedent, and the state-owned company would then have to take over the other franchises as the government reassesses its rail policy.
DOR has been operating the East Coast main line since 2009 after National Express pulled out of the franchise.
Effectively renationalising four more franchises would put around half the country^s railways into state control ^ causing a furore among Tories.
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Any opinions made on this forum are purely personal and my own. I am in no way speaking for, or offering the views of First Great Western or First Group.
If my employer feels I have broken any aspect of the Social Media Policy, please PM me immediately, so I can rectify without delay.
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JayMac
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« Reply #86 on: October 11, 2012, 23:37:18 » |
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The problem the government have in giving Virgin what would effectively be an open ended (there are no guarantees the mess can be sorted out quickly) management contract is European law. Any such contracts need to be advertised and open to competition.
On the flip side the government will face opprobrium from within the Conservative party if they nationalise the WCML▸ .
No easy answer, and whichever path Patrick McLoughlin takes there will likely be problems.
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation." "Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot." "Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
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Brucey
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« Reply #87 on: October 15, 2012, 07:24:50 » |
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BBC» reporting this morning that Virgin will be running the WCML▸ for at least another nine months. I have no details on how this will work or a link to the story yet.
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RichardB
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« Reply #88 on: October 15, 2012, 09:01:48 » |
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #89 on: October 15, 2012, 12:05:15 » |
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From the BBC» : Virgin to run West Coast route 'for at least nine months'
Virgin Trains will be asked to continue to run services on the West Coast Mainline for at least another nine months after the latest decision on the route franchise was scrapped.
In a stock exchange announcement ministers said they will hold talks with Virgin for a "temporary" contract.
A competition will then be run for a new franchise agreement.
The decision to give FirstGroup the route from December was withdrawn over "technical flaws" in the bid process.
The Department for Transport told the London Stock Exchange it hoped Virgin would remain as the West Coast Mainline operator for between nine and 13 months while a competition was run for an interim franchise agreement.
This interim agreement will then run until a new long-term franchise agreement is in place.
"The government believes that this is the best way to ensure services are maintained and that there is no impact on passengers," it added.
A Virgin Trains spokesman said the move meant it was in a position to "offer customers some short-term continuity".
The competition to run the line was cancelled on 3 October and led to the suspension of other franchise programmes including bids for Essex Thameside, Great Western and Thameslink.
The government has announced two independent reviews to focus on the West Coast competition and the wider DfT» rail franchise programme.
Three civil servants were suspended over the way the West Coast franchise process had been conducted and the government has said the estimated cost of reimbursing Virgin, FirstGroup and two other companies for the cost of their bids will be about ^40m.
The flaws in the bidding were discovered as the DfT was preparing to contest a legal challenge by Virgin to the decision not to award it the contract.
Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin said: "My priority now is to fix the problem and the first step is to take urgent action to ensure that... services continue to run to the same standard and passengers are not affected.
"I believe Virgin remaining as operator for a short period of time is the best way to do this and my officials and I will be working flat out to make this happen."
Mr McLoughlin is due to give further details on the plans in the House of Commons at 15:30 BST on Monday.
The West Coast route serves 31 million passengers travelling between London, the West Midlands, the north-west of England, North Wales and the central belt of Scotland.
FirstGroup had initially beaten current operator Virgin Trains to win the 13-year franchise.
BBC News transport correspondent Richard Westcott said the interim contract will last for two years while the longer franchise will be handed out around the time of the next general election.
The decision was a "messy solution to a mistake that is costing the taxpayer tens of millions of pounds" but the transport secretary feels it is the best way to keep services running without disruption, our correspondent added.
Ahead of the announcement, Labour warned that a decision to extend Virgin's contract could see taxpayers exposed to further legal costs.
Shadow transport secretary Maria Eagle also said it was wrong for the investigation into the bid process to be carried by a DfT non-executive director.
RMT▸ transport union leader Bob Crow described the decision to extend Virgin's franchise as a "shabby deal" but said it was "no surprise". The RMT had been hoping the West Coast franchise would be run by the DfT in the public sector.
Meanwhile, Manuel Cortes, leader of the TSSA» rail union, said: "This decision means that the long-running Whitehall farce, known as private rail franchising, continues at the taxpayer's expense."
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William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
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