Ticketing help outside of the FGW zone ?

[whole diary]

[Jason]

Is this forum suitable for ticketing queries outside of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) areas ?
If not then please strike this thread from the record

[grahame]

Is this forum suitable for ticketing queries outside of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) areas ?
If not then please strike this thread from the record

Bearing in mind that most of our resident experts are from FGW land, you might find that you only get limited answers, but I'm inclined to say "go ahead, ask, but don't be disappointed if you get little or no response".  If we were to get so many questions out-of-area that it significantly diluted the board, or was exercising our local experts beyond the time they wished and were able to give us, we might want to revisit that answer ... but for the moment, go ahead!

[JayMac]

I'll give your query a go nosaj. Although I will be away from computer until around 4pm.

[Jason]

Many thanks for the go-ahead.

I have a booking consisting of two single tickets, Kings Cross to Newcastle, departing 12/10/12 and returning from Newcastle to Kings Cross on 14/10/12.

For the return leg, I instead need to travel from Newcastle to Leeds on the 14/10/12 and then from Leeds to Kings Cross on 15/10/12. It doesn't appear that I can modify the booking with a different origin or destination, but can I cancel just the one leg ? East Coast's site looks quite good at handling simple date/time amendments but not this level of faffing about

Jason.

[grahame]

If they're flexible tickets, there may be no need to modify them.  Via Leeds is valid for "any permitted route", Newcastle to London, as far as I can see (same price). And single tickets allow break of journey which you could do at Leeds, and these days they're valid for travel on the start date of the ticket and following day - which is the journey over 2 days that you want.

Jason - can you confirm that they're flexible single tickets - I'm sure bignosemac will want to know that so that he can confirm my first initial analysis, which does need someone like him to confirm as I'm something of an amateur at questions like this.

[Jason]

Unfortunately my tickets are EC First Advance and are tied to the departures as booked.
Many thanks for your analysis!

[TonyK]

Seems you may be having to book another ticket from Leeds, but should be able to use your ticket to get to Leeds on the booked train, unless someone gets very pedantic. I have heard tales of penalty fares being applied where someone with a limited ticket gets off a station early.

[Jason]

should be able to use your ticket to get to Leeds on the booked train, unless someone gets very pedantic

Interesting, on what basis would I be doing this, given that it is a cross country service that runs to Leeds ?
I've not collected the tickets yet, I shall do so and see what they actually say.

Jason.

[grahame]

should be able to use your ticket to get to Leeds on the booked train, unless someone gets very pedantic

Interesting, on what basis would I be doing this, given that it is a cross country service that runs to Leeds ?
I've not collected the tickets yet, I shall do so and see what they actually say.

Jason.

If an East Coast advanced works like an FGW^▸ (First Great Western) one, you can only take your specified East Coast train, and the rules say that you should take it all the way to King's Cross.   I recall some South West Trains / Megatrain ticket passengers getting off at Eastleigh when they were ticketed to Southampton, and being in all sorts of bovver at the barrier. Were you to get off the train from Newcastle at York or Doncaster, and then get directly onto a Leeds train without leaving the station (with a ticket that you had bought ahead of time from York or Doncaster to Leeds) you would, I think, be breaking the rules and so I can't advise you to do it.

[Southern Stag]

Your original ticket could still have some use if you have the time on the 15th to travel up to Newcastle then down to London. You could change your advance ticket for the 14th to a ticket for the 15th, you'd have to pay the difference between the cost of the original ticket and the cost of the new ticket, plus a ^10 administration fee. If you wanted to save money you could change from the First advance on the 14th to a Standard advance on the 15th. The most cost effective solution depends on how much you paid for the ticket originally. You also have to consider the cost of travelling up to Newcastle from Leeds, as well as the time spent doing that.

[Jason]

Were you to get off the train from Newcastle at York or Doncaster, and then get directly onto a Leeds train without leaving the station (with a ticket that you had bought ahead of time from York or Doncaster to Leeds) you would, I think, be breaking the rules and so I can't advise you to do it.

Indeed, I have read some horror stories about people cutting journeys short in this way.

Thanks to everyone for the most useful words of advice.

Jason.

[JayMac]

Your ticket from Newcastle (NCL) to London King's Cross (KGX) on 14/10/2012 will, I assume, be an East Coast Advance. EC from NCL to KGX do not travel via Leeds so this ticket couldn't even be used to travel short to Leeds, which is of course not allowed anyway, but this is often difficult to enforce even when trains do call at the intermediate station you want to alight at.

If your Advance from NCL to KGX is marked 'EC & Connections' (I believe they all are) then the only value you can get from this ticket, for your amended journey plans, is to use it to excess to an Anytime Single. You will pay the difference between the price paid for the Advance and the Anytime Single plus a ^10 admin fee. The Anytime Single is valid for two days and break of journey is permitted so you could use this amended ticket on the 14th to travel to Leeds and on the 15th to travel from Leeds to KGX.

Changing an Advance to a walk up fare is allowed as long as origin and destination remain the same and travel is with the same Train Company as printed on the original ticket. As the original ticket is likely to be 'EC & Connections' I think you'd be OK travelling from Newcastle to York on East Coast then on a connecting service to Leeds with either TransPennine Express or Northern. Then on day two you should complete your journey from Leeds to KGX with East Coast.

That's my analysis, looking at the rules of what you can and cannot do with an Advance ticket when you wish to amend your travel plans. I have a small doubt about the option given above as the rules aren't totally clear and unambiguous. So I'd strongly advise you not to take this as gospel and to check at a staffed station. If necessary, asking the booking clerk to check the 'Advance Fares FAQs^▸ (Frequently Asked Questions)' in 'The Manual'.

Because this is a slightly left field request I won't quote from 'The Manual' myself in case I'm not 100% correct.

Ultimately it may be cheaper to buy two new Advances from NCL to LDS and LDS to KGX.