Parking Offence at Twyford Station

[whole diary]

[LiskeardRich]

Just beware, the law is changing in this area has changed. Anybody is now able to claim unpaid parking charges from the registered keeper of the vehicle, only councils can do this at the moment. The laws haven't been tested in the courts yet but any reasonable parking charges should probably be paid now. The letters threatening court action may now have some substance.

a reasonable charge in law can not be anything more than costs incurred by ticket issuer. It has to be the cost it physically cost the company to issue that ticket, plus the original ticket price.
e.g. parking pay and display ticket price, 10 mins of car park attendant hourly rate to issue the ticket (if that), and the cost of the ticket stock that it was issued on.

[Brucey]

I would be careful nowadays.  There was a case (from the Portsmouth County Court) which I stumbled upon whilst looking for something completely different where the PPC took someone to court and won.  They were also awarded costs.  Total awarded ^399.76 for a ^135.00 "parking fee".

Here is the judgement: http://www.combinedparkingsolutions.com/downloads/dorrington.PDF

Basically, completely the reverse of what consumer websites tell you will happen.

[JayMac]

Important to note in that judgement though that this was a case of someone not paying the fee to park, which is a clear breach of (implied) contract, rather than someone receiving a 'parking charge' notice for contravention of car park 'rules'.

[Southern Stag]

Point taken Southern Stag, but this thread was dealing with an alleged 'offence' that took place before the new laws were enacted on 1st October 2012. The new legislation is not retrospective.

Indeed, I was posting more as a general warning that ignoring these types of tickets may no longer be advisable. I too await the first case on this law, but it will probably be a while yet before one reaches court.

[Southern Stag]

a reasonable charge in law can not be anything more than costs incurred by ticket issuer. It has to be the cost it physically cost the company to issue that ticket, plus the original ticket price.
e.g. parking pay and display ticket price, 10 mins of car park attendant hourly rate to issue the ticket (if that), and the cost of the ticket stock that it was issued on.

I'm not aware of any cases which have tested what can and can't be claimed, but if you have genuinely breached the car parking rules and the company are not asking for a grossly disproportionate sum it may be best to pay up. Of course parking companies still might not wish to go to the expense of brining these matters to court, there is no guarantee they'll win and it could bring to light some of their practices.

[adc82140]

 

Of course parking companies still might not wish to go to the expense of brining these matters to court, there is no guarantee they'll win and it could bring to light some of their practices.

Exactly. I really don't think that Roxburghe/Graham White would want their allegedly suspect practices to go before the courts. If they're still making money just by issuing threats, why would they want to change?

If APCOA^▸ (Car parking company used at GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) - controlled stations in the area) started using proper debt agencies and solicitors, that would be the time to start seeking advice.

[jacquio]

Now have received a letter from Graham White with a facsimile signature.  Am going to ignore this as well!

[jacquio]

Yet again I have received a parking offence notice stating that I parked in a restricted area. Nothing to say that it was restricted. Paired my parking ticket for the day. Have now ignored two notices from Apocoa. What do you think I should do. Carry on ignoring them?

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

Have you seen the BBC1 programmes on parking? There were eseveral cases where people did not/could not see the restriction signs and they appealed and the adjudicator seemed to usually cancel the ticket. I am not sure what the arrangements are for APCOA^▸ (Car parking company used at GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) - controlled stations in the area) but I would be inclined to write APCOA pointing this out.

[Ollie]

Which part were you in? The bit at the front of the station is restricted to permit holders, as is the bit near the taxi office. There is signage that says a permit is required.

If you are using a normal daily ticket, then the only car park for use would be the biggest car park which you access by driving under the railway bridge.

[SDS]

Have you seen the BBC1 programmes on parking? There were eseveral cases where people did not/could not see the restriction signs and they appealed and the adjudicator seemed to usually cancel the ticket. I am not sure what the arrangements are for APCOA^▸ (Car parking company used at GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) - controlled stations in the area) but I would be inclined to write APCOA pointing this out.

Remember that the rules are slightly different for parking on railway land as byelaw 14 can apply.
Have a wander over to http://forums.pepipoo.com/ and do a search for APCOA or Rail and read the 'advice'.

[JayMac]

Chances are, if APCOA^▸ (Car parking company used at GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) - controlled stations in the area) are asking for a payment for breaching terms and conditions laid out on signage, that this will be a speculative invoice which can be easily beaten by going through the Private Parking industry's appeals process. That first means appealing to the Private Parking Company who have issued the 'ticket'. Appeal on the basis that their charge doesn't represent a true estimate of the loss they have have incurred. Then, when they have inevitably turned down that appeal, they are obliged to point you toward an independent appeals service called Parking On Private Land Appeals (POPLA). There it is almost guaranteed you will win an appeal based on the charge not being a true estimate of the losses suffered by either the parking company or the landowner.

However, as SDS has said, railway station car parks can be covered by Railway Byelaw 14. APCOA rarely use this legislation as it is more beneficial to them to send out speculative invoices. From which they get 100% of the charge if the motorist pays up. If they use Byelaw 14 (which has to be with agreement from the principal (i.e the landholder)), then that is a matter for a magistrate to rule on. They might well win in court but are unlikely to get as much as they would from a speculative invoice.

Either way, don't ignore. If APCOA are not using Byelaw 14 then appeal the charge to them and then POPLA. You can do this with the help of http://forums.pepipoo.com/. If they are using Byelaw 14 then then they have to ensure they've dotted the I's and crossed the T's. Again though, seek advice from http://forums.pepipoo.com/.

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

re "There is signage that says a permit is required." above.
What is a permit? At Hanborough our old small car park in front of the platform has several differenct sections. Pay and Display, Residents Parking (for the homes near the station where parking is restricted now since charges were introduced, 12 clearly marked Disabled spaces, and 7 or 8 spaces along side the platform each marked "Permit Holders Only". I have asked FGW^▸ (First Great Western) management what "Permit Holders Only" means and had no response. There are no signs to explain what this means to rail users. Most people do not use them as they are afaid that they might get a ticket even if they have purchased a Pay & Display ticket but some do. The arguement is that having purchased a Pay and Display ticket, that is a parking permit.
Can anyone explain this rule as FGW does not seem able to do so. The car park is also prominently signed on the main road outside as Disabled and Pick-up and Set-Down only. However there are no spaces in the car park designated for Set-down and Pick-up vehicles so such vehicles are parked in the turning area or in the very under-used disabled spaces. Altogether poor management that has just has not been thought through by those responsible for its implementation.

[Pb_devon]

I agree Andrew 1939 - same as the "authorised persons only beyond this point" signs.......what the h**l is that supposed to mean??!! 

[Ollie]

Think it either says permit holder or season tickets, I will check when I go through later and get a pic of the signage for you. This is of course speculating as the original poster hasn't replied to confirm where they were parked.