Heathrow Airport expansion - proposal for third runway - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[bobm]

This article in the Wokingham Times suggests an airport in East Berkshire.

Plans for an international airport to be built on the edge of the borough have been slammed by Wokingham^s MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) and councillors.
 
A British business consortium is believed to be assessing land between Reading, Maidenhead and Bracknell for a ^60bn four-runway airport.
 
Secret plans from the consortium, said to be backed by Chinese sovereign wealth funds, reveal an airport could be built near Twyford or between Aylesbury and Banbury to solve the country^s aviation crisis.
 
Noise, traffic and the airport^s affect on the village are among the objectors main concerns.
 
Wokingham MP John Redwood said: ^It^s certainly not something I^m supporting. It doesn^t sound like a plausible plan to me.
 
^I don^t see where there could be the space ^ a lot of land near Bracknell is quite hilly and what would happen to Twyford?
 
^I think there are other serious options they will value and review like another runway at Heathrow, extensions to Stansted or Gatwick and a new airport in the Thames estuary. This idea is wildly impractical.^
 
It^s believed the area^s direct rail link and close proximity to London help make it an attractive location.
 
Councillor David Lee, leader of Wokingham Borough Council, said: ^I wasn^t aware of this plan and I certainly wouldn^t want an airport built on my doorstep.
 
^I can^t really see why this plan would be a flyer ^ why develop a new airport when there is one down the road? From a personal perspective I^d be in favour of a third runway at Heathrow.^
 
Chancellor George Osborne has backed expansion to airport capacity in the South East but said the government would seek cross-party agreement on any plans.
 
Proposals for an artificial island in the Thames estuary, known as Boris Island, or a ^50bn airport on the Isle of Grain have been put forward.
 
Cllr Lee added: ^I think moving the international hub to the east would have serious consequences for the Thames Valley.

^We have some of the biggest business parks with the biggest names and they would have placed themselves here because of the high educational standards and the ease of international travel.^
 
Specialist engineers are believed to have been asked to evaluate flat tracts of land that could support an international airport near Wokingham or in Oxfordshire.
 
Cllr Keith Baker, executive member for highways and planning, said: ^As a principle any idea that will boost economic activity in the borough has the potential to be a good one.
 
^Clearly there will be a downside in the sense that such a major operation is going to require huge amounts of land and have a major impact on life in the surrounding area. There would be serious noise and traffic issues.^
 
Patrick Heather, chairman of Twyford Village Partnership, said: ^I would be gobsmacked if this actually happened.

^We need to wait until we have more details before reacting.
 
^Personally I^m opposed to an extra runway at Heathrow and I think they would be mad to come into Berkshire.

^If they are going to build a new airport it makes more sense to me to put it in the Thames estuary with a fast train link.^
 
Prime Minister David Cameron said today in Parliament the Government would not drop its opposition to the third runway at Heathrow Airport.

[Btline]

A furious Boris Johnson has attacked David Cameron over a possible U-turn. He is also demanding an assurance that the expansion is ruled out.

I think the Abingdon option posted above is ideal. The landing aircraft would align just West of High Wycombe, and there is barely any population between there and the airport.
That part of Oxfordshire is already plagued by industrial developments such as the Diamond Light Resource centre.

Road links to London may have to be improved, plus an extra Oxford bypass.
And a new rail link would be needed from Didcot - easy enough.

[Btline]

The Berkshire idea is poor, as planes would land and take off over busy areas.

[TonyK]

Nah - I think we need a "London Kemble" airfield.   Just off the main railway line, convenient for a large area including Swindon and North Bristol, and with just half a mile of railway to build across fields to connect it to the network.  747s already land there (although rather fewer if any take off) ...

I remember the first time I tried to land a PA28 (Piper Cherokee for the uninitiated) at Kemble. I had an instructor, who did not touch the controls at all, in the the right hand seat, and a pal from the office behind. I flew a good downwind leg, parallel to the runway, doing the full BUMPFFICHHLA checklist, turned a perfect base leg, then called "Finals to land". I lined up, and the runway seemed to slide gently to the right. "Get yer bluddy wing down!" cried the instructor. "Yes Miss", said I, with a trembling in my bottom lip (and in my bottom, truth to tell). I got the balance of wing and rudder close enough to tell me that all was well, but still thought the runway was too narrow to land on. I had taken off at Filton, which is huge.

To cut a short story long, I levelled out at exactly the right height, touched down so gently that my passenger didn't realise that she had landed, although this was her first ever flight in an aeroplane, and lost my smug grin as soon as I realised that someone had landed a 747 before me. A PA^▸ (Public Address) 28 could, at least in theory, get airborne inside a 747.

I have exaggerated part of this. My lovely instructor Lavinia doesn't shout at anyone, she just lets them get into trouble, then either tells them what to do, or says "I have control". Reassuring.

[JayMac]

doing the full BUMPFFICHHLA checklist

Intrigued. 

Google was no help. Could you please explain this rather long initialism, FTN?

Don't think I'll be adding it to the forum's Acronyms/Abbreviations page though....

[Electric train]

A furious Boris Johnson has attacked David Cameron over a possible U-turn. He is also demanding an assurance that the expansion is ruled out.

I think the Abingdon option posted above is ideal. The landing aircraft would align just West of High Wycombe, and there is barely any population between there and the airport.
That part of Oxfordshire is already plagued by industrial developments such as the Diamond Light Resource centre.

Road links to London may have to be improved, plus an extra Oxford bypass.
And a new rail link would be needed from Didcot - easy enough.

Problem with that its in Cameron's constituencies back yard an upset Mayor of London is easier to deal with

[Chris from Nailsea]

Google was no help.

Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BUMMMFITCHH 

[81F]

There is a perfect site for a new London airport, where for over 40 years the residents put up with noisy planes landing and taking off all times of day and night.  It's at Upper Heyford, adjacent to the existing railway between Banbury and Oxford, close to the alignment of HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)), which could surely be adjusted slightly, and there are no significant areas of population to the east or west. Might not suit a handful of wealthy landowners in north Oxfordshire around Chipping Norton, though...

[TonyK]

doing the full BUMPFFICHHLA checklist

Intrigued. 

Google was no help. Could you please explain this rather long initialism, FTN?

Don't think I'll be adding it to the forum's Acronyms/Abbreviations page though....

Sorry bignose! Thought everyone knew.

Brakes off
Undercarriage down*
Mixture (fuel, that is) rich
Propeller pitch coarse*
Fuel pump on (electric one, that is)
Fuel cock to highest tank**
Instruments - check (engine and other bits)
Carburretor heater - switch on, watch for signs of icing, switch off, but back on for finals
Hatches - doors and windows closed
Harnesses - seat belts fastened
Landing lights on
Altimeter - correct pressure setting.

The three most important things to watch on finals are:
1. Airspeed
2. Airspeed
3. Airspeed.

As we've (I've) started this, how about two other checks I have done whilst flying:
FREDA; and
BRENDA.

Offers?

* Superfluous on a PA28, as it has fixed undercarriage and propeller pitch
** Not sure I can use that word on this site in our politically-correct age. Should it be "fuel repository" rather than tank?

[Btline]

Boris Johnson in secret talks to make SHOCK comeback in the Commons and take on Cameron ahead of the election

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200393/Boris-Johnson-secret-talks-make-sensational-comeback-MP.html

[TonyK]

Boris Johnson in secret talks to make SHOCK comeback in the Commons and take on Cameron ahead of the election

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200393/Boris-Johnson-secret-talks-make-sensational-comeback-MP.html

Probably so secret that even BoJo himself doesn't know about these talks. Who are involved in these secret talks? The Mail editor, a sub-editor, and a couple of half-cut hacks? In any case, BoJo doesn't shock people anymore - think about it. He's done the shocking things, as well as a few outrageous ones. Short of toppling the monarchy, announcing that he's gay, or pulling off the mask to reveal Tony Benn, I can't think what he would do that could even mildly surprise me.

As for taking on David Cameron, I wouldn't even bet against Robert Mugabe or that mad I'm a Dinner Jacket cove from somewhere out east in a straight contest in the current political climate.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Purely in the interests of ease of readability, I've reduced the font size of the headline used in the previous two posts.

Hope this helps!  Chris. 

[TonyK]

Purely in the interests of ease of readability, I've reduced the font size of the headline used in the previous two posts.

Hope this helps!  Chris. 

Much better, ta...

Going back to my earlier post about checks, FREDA was a half-hourly or so check of:
Fuel - enough for the journey, switch tanks to balance
Radio - correct frequency set, volume up, do I need to speak to anyone?
Engine - carb heat on for a short while, any signs of ice, gauges all in the green
Direction - does it look like I'm where I should be?
Altimeter - is it set to the right pressure, am I at the right altitude, etc

The BRENDA check was much easier. I turned to my passenger in the back seat, and asked "Everything all right, Brenda?"

[Thatcham Crossing]

It has to be the 3rd runway at LHR. We should stop dithering (or more specifically the politicians should) and get on and build it.

It's not perfect, but anything else will take far too long and UK^▸ (United Kingdom) PLC will miss the economic boat loaded with the benefits that more capacity will bring.

LHR is still, at the moment, the world's most important hub airport (by virtue that it handles more international pax than anywhere else), but there are many other airports with more runways and space in Europe and the middle and far east waiting to take on that mantle.

As the 3rd runway at LHR will be shorter (around 2200m) than the existing 2 (at over 3500m), it will take less time to build, but will still be able to handle most short-to-medium haul aircraft (ie, Boeing and Airbus narrowbodies and other regional jets and turboprops), taking many of these out of the pattern for the longer runways. One of the great inefficiencies of LHR today is that these smaller aircraft have different "wake turbulence categories" to the larger aircraft, meaning that for safety reasons they have to have greater spacing when on the approach behind a "heavy" (which is effectively anything the size of a Boeing 757 or larger). Although ATC^▸ (Automatic Train Control) do their best to group batches of similarly categorised aircraft together in the approach patterns, that cannot always be done due to the complexity of trying to juggle a mix of these onto 1 approach path from 4 holding areas.

My second choice would be a second proper runway at LGW, but due to a local legal Agreement no construction can start before 2019, which is way too long to wait aswell.

Boris Island is a silly idea for so many reasons.

[TonyK]

Wake turbulence vortices are a nuisance, but not a huge one at Heathrow. A B747 following another B747 only has to be 4 nautical miles behind it, which doesn't take long to cover. If there is a crosswind, the vortex can be assumed to move away from the runway, and in any case, if the following flight touches down before the point on the runway where the preceding flight touched down, he doesn't need to pay as much heed. The drift tendency of wake vortex means that you can't ignore it, even if using parallel runways, although those at LHR are far enough apart for this not to be a big issue.

It's difficult to see the day that a politician will be able to decide on this issue, as it will always be a potential election loser.  The only conceivable way would be for a major party to actually include a commitment to build the third runway in a manifesto, then starting demolition works on Day One. Can't see that happening.

The first proposal for a northern extension over Sipson was made in 1946, before the airport was even open, and the first announcement of abandonment was made in 1953. London and its surrounds has grown greatly since, and an enlarged Heathrow, even for smaller aircraft only, would introduce noise to many hundreds of thousands more people. More likely will be a second full runway at Gatwick, which will annoy many fewer people. The big mistake at LHR was building the second runway in the late 1940s, but no-one could have imagined then how aviation would be today. That would have been the best time to build a brand new airport somewhere East of London, but we all see the past more clearly than the future.