Heathrow Airport expansion - proposal for third runway - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[devon_metro]

Heathrow has peak flows though, the number of departures probably rarely matches arrivals and vice versa. Thus a third runway would be used as "overflow".

Boris Island is a ridiculous idea. Heathrow already has the infrasture and the local residents are used to it, no point building another airport further from London when Heathrow is so well established.

[Btline]

True, but isn't that a waste of a runway?

Meanwhile AMS has 6 runways with plans for a 7th. CDG has 4...

Boris Island is not a mad idea. Ok, it's slightly further away from the centre (but only just outside the M25) - but this is GOOD!
Other cities have relocated - we need to think big.

Only in Britain do we have planes landing and taking off over the capital.

Plus The Queen must get disturbed when she is at Windsor Castle. That is reason enough to close the airport IMO^▸ (in my opinion).

[Andy W]

Presumably Boris Island was inspired by the new airport in Hong Kong.

Landing at the old Kai Tak airport was more effective than Exlax. The pilot had to avoid chinese airspace, while you would see skyscrapers zinging past the windows and to top it all there could be fearsome crosswinds.

This is a great complitation of landings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PCOcyt7BPI

On topic - to be effective you really need 4 runways if expansion is to be taken seriously - 2 take off 2 landing. Particularly important if there is a mix of aircraft as wide bodied jets create so much turbulence that you cannot necessarily get a smaller aircraft down just 2 minutes later.

A third runway would just be a Trojan Horse to a 4 runway objective.

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

The reason that aviation fuel is not taxed is that on international flights it would be so easy to evade when tax rates are fixed by each country by the airline filling up in a low tax country in just the same way as people buy cheap booze on the continent to bring home to avoid high UK^▸ (United Kingdom) taxed booze. The other comparative is the practice of foreign HGVs entering the country filled to the brim with fuel bought in a lower taxed country so that they do not have to buy high priced fuel in Uk for their travels in UK. Ideally there should be an entrance tax to UK calculated on the amount of fuel in the tank on entering UK but that would be very difficult to work and probably be vetoed by the EU^» (European Union - about) rulers.The UK tax on ticket sales for flights departing UK is difficult to avoid. However that could be improved if the tax was changed, as has been proposed, to a flight departure tax on each aircraft. This would encourage, flights to be filled instead of many being half empty as the tax per passenger for a half filled flight would be twice that of a fully filled flight. However many of the operators have complained about this as it would in effect put up the price of the current low fares for off-peak flights. It is all very complicated.

[Western Enterprise]

There was interesting commentary in The Times yesterday from a journalist who lives 15 miles from Heathrow under the flight-path, who was originally campaigning against the third runway.  She now believes it is a good thing,

.... She is probably now moving to the Isle of Sheppey !....

West London is full and a new small 3rd runway would not be the panacea people are making out.
A radical new option is needed, which should have been chosen by the new labour govt 15 years ago.

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

Take a look heare for further Heathrow replacement sites:  http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/9906960.Oxfordshire_eyed_as_site_for_London_airport/

[Surrey 455]

As a former resident of Sipson I am naturally against the third runway.

My opinion is that if BA^» (British Airways - about) and other airlines want to increase the number of destinations in China that they serve they can do so by cutting out 1 or 2 of the departures to cities in Europe that are served several times a day. If there is a strong demand to fly to certain destinations then use bigger aircraft. Doesn't have to be an A380 which not all airports can handle. A 747 should be sufficient for those airports that can't.

Does Heathrow need a new runway? Virgin say yes but they've managed to find slots to fly to Manchester, not sure how if the airport is supposedly full.

None of the above options have considered the needs of west / south west London residents who suffer with noise greatly so I have to conclude that a new runway(s) elsewhere away from dense population  is preferable - LGW, STN, BHX^▸ (Bank Holiday excepted (on timetables)) or even Boris Island which having initially having been considered as a pie in the sky could work (air traffic complications with Schipol permitting).

[JayMac]

Does Heathrow need a new runway? Virgin say yes but they've managed to find slots to fly to Manchester, not sure how if the airport is supposedly full.

Those are slots that were formerly used by BMI. IAG/BA^» (British Airways - about), having taken over BMI, were forced to give up the slots on competition grounds.

[Btline]

An Oxfordshire airport would be an excellent idea, as it on the right side of the M25 (as opposed to the... right (i.e. wrong) hand side).
And presumably the runways would align as to avoid major urban areas.

Sites:
*Near the A34 (that would be uprgaded to motorway between the M3 and the M40)
*Near HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) - lots of free land near the line
*In M40 corridor

Of course, all of this ONLY if Heathrow and at least one or two other SE airports were shut to compensate environmentally.

[bobm]

What like the "London Oxford" airport at Kidlington.....

[grahame]

What like the "London Oxford" airport at Kidlington.....

Nah - I think we need a "London Kemble" airfield.   Just off the main railway line, convenient for a large area including Swindon and North Bristol, and with just half a mile of railway to build across fields to connect it to the network.  747s already land there (although rather fewer if any take off) ...

[bobm]

.. but then they'd fly over my house if the wind was in a particular direction!   

[didcotdean]

This was the LOX (London Oxford) proposal of just under 10 years ago:

http://www.pleiade.org/projectzone/LOX/pdf/LOX02.1.3_airport_layout.pdf

Marcham would finally get its bypass ...

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

I cannot understand why the allocation of airport slots is not put out to competetiver tender as almost all other public services run by commercial orgaisations is nowadays ah la Rail Franchises. If there is more demand than available slots at Heathrow, the highest bidder would get the slot. At present existing airlines have rights at particular airports based upon historic allocations. One of the quoted reasons that BA^» (British Airways - about) recently bought out BM from Lufthansa was the Heathrow landing slot that BM possessed. Tendering the best price would mean that lesser used airports could attract use by charging less than Heathrow.

The important thing, in my view, is that if additional runways are needed for London, they should be built where fight paths would not go over densely populated areas and with good rail/road links. So many Heathrow landing paths go straight bover central and west London creating noise nuisance to millions. Boris Island would be enormously expensive to develop but what about the other options. I would rule out Northolt as that would create similar noise polution levels as Heathrow but what about, additional runways for Gatwick, Standsted, Luton, Southend, Manston, Biggin Hill, Farnborough, etc. 

[didcotdean]

Generally speaking airports are better situated north or south of the city they are serving, to minimise overflying. An Oxfordshire or Berkshire location is therefore not the most sensible from that perspective. Heathrow is in just about the worst place.