FirstGroup win InterCity West Coast Franchise

[whole diary]

[Southern Stag]

But had premium profiles to take that into account. A bid using just the existing fleet would probably have been able to pay greater premiums. Virgin did very well out the West Coast franchise, the failure of Railtrack and the delays to the West Coast Route Modernisation meant they had the franchise renegotiated on very favourable terms for them.

[JayMac]

They bought new trains for both WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority)) and Cross Country when they took over didn't they?  That was not specified in the ITT^▸ (Invitation to Tender).

They ordered new trains. They certainly didn't buy them.

And paid the additional leasing costs!

My apologies if my response came across as curt. I realise you weren't suggesting Virgin actually own the trains.

Just a little sensitive at the moment to all the misinformation coming from the Virgin Supporters Club.

Most recent thing I saw that had me shaking me head was someone saying that Richard Branson should refuse to sell his trains to First Group. 

[ellendune]

They bought new trains for both WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority)) and Cross Country when they took over didn't they?  That was not specified in the ITT^▸ (Invitation to Tender).

They ordered new trains. They certainly didn't buy them.

And paid the additional leasing costs!

My apologies if my response came across as curt. I realise you weren't suggesting Virgin actually own the trains.

Just a little sensitive at the moment to all the misinformation coming from the Virgin Supporters Club.

Most recent thing I saw that had me shaking me head was someone saying that Richard Branson should refuse to sell his trains to First Group. 

I too am getting very annoyed at the Virgin Supporters Club.  Just trying to find the truth in all the misinformation around.  No apology required.

Edit Very annoyed is understating somewhat

[Chris from Nailsea]

To be fair to Branson (I too, don't understand the obsession with calling him other names), his article in the Telegraph is quite fair. Of course, it doesn't mean he should retain the WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority))!

Also, to be fair, it should be remembered that Sir Richard Branson is an accomplished and experienced self-publicist. 

[phile]

They bought new trains for both WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority)) and Cross Country when they took over didn't they?  That was not specified in the ITT^▸ (Invitation to Tender).

They ordered new trains. They certainly didn't buy them.

And paid the additional leasing costs!

My apologies if my response came across as curt. I realise you weren't suggesting Virgin actually own the trains.

Just a little sensitive at the moment to all the misinformation coming from the Virgin Supporters Club.

Most recent thing I saw that had me shaking me head was someone saying that Richard Branson should refuse to sell his trains to First Group. 

I too am getting very annoyed at the Virgin Supporters Club.  Just trying to find the truth in all the misinformation around.  No apology required.

Edit Very annoyed is understating somewhat

There may be a Virgin Supporters club, but when 100,000 sign a petition there must be very strong feeling.

[JayMac]

There may be a Virgin Supporters club, but when 100,000 sign a petition there must be very strong feeling.

Or 130,000+ people falling for slick PR^▸ (Public Relations), misinformation and following a social media herd. Franchise bids and award decisions are governed by carefully laid down rules and the rule of law. Not the rule of the mob. They are not decided by a public vote, and nor should they be. We don't have a say in the award of other government contracts to the private sector, why should railway franchises be any different? There are already enough layers of scrutiny and oversight without the need for another one. Government business would grind to a halt if every contract award had to be decided by public referenda.

Now, a petition asking the government to debate the franchising process is one I would sign.

But you'll no more get me to sign this petition than a 'Reinstate First Great Western' one in December when it's announced they've lost to National Express. 

[EBrown]

As I said Phile: 0.3% of Virgins passenger numbers. Hardly a strong feeling.

[TerminalJunkie]

As I said Phile: 0.3% of Virgins passenger numbers. Hardly a strong feeling.

What do you suppose the proportion would be if, for example, Virgin Season Ticket holders were allowed to sign the petition more than once?

[JayMac]

As I said Phile: 0.3% of Virgins passenger numbers. Hardly a strong feeling.

To be pedantic, Virgin don't have 30,000,000 individual passengers. That number is the amount of journeys made by their passengers.

Still, 138,000+ e-petitioners is easily a small minority of the West Coast's individual passenger count. And....

What do you suppose the proportion would be if, for example, Virgin Season Ticket holders were allowed to sign the petition more than once?

.... anyone can sign the e-petition more than once and I suspect many have.

[Brucey]

I'm also wondering how many people who signed the petition actually use the services of Virgin Trains?

[EBrown]

As I said Phile: 0.3% of Virgins passenger numbers. Hardly a strong feeling.

To be pedantic, Virgin don't have 30,000,000 individual passengers. That number is the amount of journeys made by their passengers.

As I said originally, it's a misprint and I provided the quote.

Oh, just to be pedantic, it's 30200000...

[TerminalJunkie]

As I said originally, it's a misprint and I provided the quote.

Did you? Where?

It wasn't here:

[...]

About 31 million passengers travel on the West Coast Mainline every year.

...because all you did was type in a number with no verifiable source; and I can't see anything where you said it was a misprint.

[EBrown]

Actually, it was there. I'm sure you can see the post was edited, I may have mistakenly removed it, but it was there.

How's the Office of Rail Regulation *official* statistics for you? (The 30200000 number). You're more than welcome to go and check.

The other was quoted from an article, by all means Google it to find out where it is from. Is that okay with you too?

Kindly don't tell me what I have or haven't done. Oddly, you don't know, do you? It's a little like me saying "you just post to wind people up". By all means assume, and yes, I assume you just post to wind people up (so we're clear).
 

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

The West Coast Mainline route serves 31 million passengers travelling between London, the West Midlands, the North West, North Wales and the central belt of Scotland.

Virgin has run the franchise since 1997, during which time passenger numbers have doubled.

[TerminalJunkie]

Actually, it was there. I'm sure you can see the post was edited, I may have mistakenly removed it, but it was there.

If you say so.

How's the Office of Rail Regulation *official* statistics for you? (The 30200000 number). You're more than welcome to go and check.

It took some finding, but it's here: http://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/displayreport/report/html/3137c454-9748-425e-aa73-963486fa729a.

However, the actual statistic refers to 'Passenger Journeys'. The distinction is important: since almost every passenger makes at least two journeys (and holders of Annual Seasons 200 or more), it follows that arguing that '100,000 people' signing a petition is '0.3% of Virgins[sic] Passenger numbers' is faintly ridiculous. It might be arithmetically correct, but it's as statistically meaningless as saying 100,000 signatories is only 1% of the number of slugs found in forty acres of farmland**.

** No, I didn't make it up: http://www.slugoff.co.uk/slug-facts/facts