Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

What about a rail tunnel? Paddington to St. Mary's direct. 

[smokey]

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) there were 3 objectors to the Sainsburys Plan.

However 2 objectors, (one was Tesco) dropped their objections (mainly due to the bad publicity) but ONE objection still remains, I just wonder if the IOS Steamship Company or someone connected have objected, bearing in mind some of the rumours and the OLD principal there are NO friends in business!

However the helicopters have been running for YEARS, since 1964, and the fact that the land had to be sold to raise cash to purchase new helicopters makes me wonder was the helicopter service viable or somewhat badly managed?

And on a side there were plans for a new ferry terminal in Penzance, but that was held up by protests about builing on the battery rocks in Penzance, the Con/Lib government dropped the ferry terminal plan as NOT VFM.

Whilst I was basically for the new ferry terminal, but why on earth don't they build it on the Albert Pier. that has direct access to a large Car Park and even more importanly less than 5 Minutes walk to both Penzance Railway & Bus Stations.

However my support for the New Ferry has vanish as I've heard that Cornwall councils plans were for a RO RO ferry.
ROll On, Roll Off Ferry? The whole beauty is that the Isles of Scilly  are pretty much CAR FREE!

Anyone able to confirm the RO RO plan?

[TonyK]

I've heard a flying instructor who didn't like helicopters say that your life depends on one nut, or two if you count the pilot. Trains are dangerous if they are badly maintained or operated in a dangerous way; helicopters are similar in this respect, but without the option of coasting to a halt on level ground. There has been only one serious incident on the Scillies helicopter service, which sadly resulted in the loss of 20 lives, although 6 survived. The cause was determined by the AAIB^▸ (Air Accident Investigation Branch) to be pilot error, in effect trying to fly at 250 feet under low cloud, and hitting the water. I don't think of that as an indication of inherent danger.

The local rag seemed to think the service is now safe. British International Helicopter's website, sadly, does not.

As to the IOW hovercraft, I've watched it coming into and going out of Ryde. The biggest vessel holds 130 people, and it seemed fairly full most journeys that I saw. I can't think of another way of getting people into Ryde from Southsea as quickly and easily, so I guess it is viable. I recall reading an article about Hoverspeed's former French hovercraft, which said maintaining the rubber skirt is a major expense. The IOW service doesn't have the same battering. It has four diesel engines, two to lift, two to propel, I have no idea how much fuel they use. But I assume the service is thriving, and will continue until someone thinks of a better way.

Unless Hovertravel try to sell the apron to Sainsbury, that is...

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Isles of Scilly flight disruption sparks concerns


Weather permitting, Skybus planes fly to the Isles of Scilly six days a week

Transport bosses have said they are doing all they can to minimise the impact the weather is having on air links to the Isles of Scilly.

Land's End Airport has been temporarily closed until 6 December because of a waterlogged grass runway, so Skybus flights will be running from Newquay.

Newsagents, flower growers and a hotel owner are among those affected.

Since helicopter flights ended in October, the Isles of Scilly Travel company is the sole air provider. It operates flights six days a week in good weather. Its ferry, the Scillonian, only runs in the summer and a freight ferry operates every other day.

Mumford's Newsagent, on St Mary's, said without guaranteed daily papers it was losing money and flower grower Ben Julian said with with no flights to Land's End until Thursday, he cannot send his customers' orders out by first class post.

Meanwhile, the manager of the Bell Rock hotel said a number of bookings have been cancelled and that was of concern as business "just ticked over" outside the tourism season. "Every booking counts, so although I think Skybus has been doing a pretty good job since the helicopters stopped, it's quite worrying," he told BBC News.

Andrew May, the chairman of the travel company, said the decision to close the airport was taken because because further heavy rain has been predicted. He said the company had been doing its best since "stepping up to the plate" when British International Helicopters stopped flying.

"The weather's a challenge for lots of people and we're managing as best we can - we can manage the circumstances but we can't manage the weather," he told BBC News. The steamship company's current contract with the Royal Mail covers flights to Land's End, but not Newquay, but Mr May said discussions were taking place to see if that could be changed.

Dudley Mumford, chair of the Council of the Isles of Scilly transport committee, described the recent weather as "unprecedented" and said there was no quick fix. "Although we can plan for so many contingencies, the bad weather coupled with the demise of the helicopter has put a strain on the services," he said.

[TonyK]

Skybus have a captive market now. The picture shows G-CBML, a 32 year old Twin Otter, at Lands End Airport. Don't be concerned with the age of the plane, they are tremendously robust machines, and are subject to a rigorous maintenance regime. They are checked for the basics by the pilot before every flight, have a 50-hour inspection by an authorised engineer, and a more invasive 100-hour inspection by the same. They have an annual inspection which typically takes a few days, and the engines have a finite life. The engine service is a major one at 1800 hours, and a very major service at 3600 hours. I have seen figures that show that if you lavished the same care on your car, it would last 2000 years. Helicopters need much more TLC^▸ (three letter code ).The leading edge of the rotor blades in particular need considerable attention, and are vital to a safe flight.

I have a son-in-law in the RAF^▸ (Royal Air Force) who recently switched from VC10 tankers to helicopters. In VC10 work, he used to patch them up, and figure out what faults they could fly with. The Pumas have to be 100% fit before every flight. This is not to say that choppers are intrinsically unsafe, just that no-one will take any chances with them.

Grass runways are fun to land on, when dry. You fly past them at about 300 feet, to the right, and inspect the surface, if you don't have someone on the ground telling you what the conditions are like. Then you fly around to final approach, and approach as slowly as you dare, with full flap. Then you "hold off" a few feet above the threshold, keeping the aircraft flying as long as you can. When the wheels touch, you slow down very quickly, without brakes. A friend in my aero club landed at Compton Abbas after rain. He is a big man, and had a passenger. He got down to about 50 knots in a Piper Cherokee, with the stall warning indicator buzzing. When the wheels touched, it stopped. He bashed his nose on the dashboard, and needed full power to taxy out of the mud. That is the limitation of using fixed wing craft at Lands End, especially in a summer like we have just had.

[JayMac]

He is a big man, and had a passenger. He got down to about 50 knots in a Piper Cherokee, with the stall warning indicator buzzing. When the wheels touched, it stopped. He bashed his nose on the dashboard, and needed full power to taxy out of the mud.

I know I shouldn't have, but that part of your post made me laugh. Hope his nose wasn't seriously damaged. I believe pilots live by the mantra that, "Any landing you walk away from is a good landing." 

[TonyK]

Don't worry - it made me laugh too, and he saw the funny side later.  You're right about a good landing, too. The other favoured maxim is "Better to be down here wishing you were up there, than up there wishing you were down here."

[Thatcham Crossing]

Going off-topic a bit, but the 3 most useless things in aviation are:

1. Sky above you
2. Runway behind you
3. Fuel in the bowser

TC^‡(resolve) (belated driver light aeroplanes)

[TonyK]

Correct! You only have too much fuel if you are on fire.

[trainer]

I believe pilots live by the mantra that, "Any landing you walk away from is a good landing."

When I read this, I realise why, when offered a choice, I choose the train over the plane!  Not sure about the viability of a tunnel to the Isles of Silly though.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Skybus Isles of Scilly flights to return to Land's End

Flights between Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly are to return to Land's End from Monday, an airline operator says.

The Isles of Scilly Steam Ship Company's Skybus service has been flying from Newquay Airport since last week because of a waterlogged grass runway at Land's End Airport.

Managers said flights were moved because of "exceptional weather conditions", including heavy rain. It added that most passengers had been able to catch the redirected flights.

Operations manager Stuart Brint said: "I think, on the whole, everyone has been very patient."

Flights were suspended on 30 November because of the waterlogged runway. Further rain midweek halted plans to bring flights back to Land's End earlier.

Mr Brint said the decision was made to return services to Land's End after an inspection of the airfield on Friday.

The islands, which have a population of 2,200, have flights six days a week in good weather. A passenger ferry, the Scillonian, only runs in the summer.

British International Helicopters stopped its year-round service on 31 October after running into financial problems.

[TonyK]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Skybus Isles of Scilly flights to return to Land's End

The Isles of Scilly Steam Ship Company's Skybus service has been flying from Newquay Airport since last week because of a waterlogged grass runway at Land's End Airport.

Any bashed noses before the switch?

The expense of switching flights to Newquay would be considerable. Not only is it further, leading to added fuel costs, but Newquay airport's "development fee" of ^5 per passenger, in addition to landing fees, will have made inroads into any remaining profit. On top of that. at least some of their passengers will have had a substantial land journey, although for others, it will have been a shorter drive. Fair play to Skybus for not just shutting up shop during the bad weather.

[LiskeardRich]

Skybus instructed customers to attend Lands End for check in, and then bussed passengers through to Newquay. Obviously passengers need their cars at Lands End for returning, I also wonder if checking in at Lands End avoids the ^5 airport tax thing, as it is effectively paid at Newquay to check in.

[TonyK]

Bit of a bugger if you live in Newquay and are going to the Scillies.

[LiskeardRich]

Bit of a bugger if you live in Newquay and are going to the Scillies.

Wouldnt you therefore book one of the scheduled Newquay - Scillies flights?