Great Western to be wired for 140!

[whole diary]

[Btline]

Good new for commuters, as the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) is to be wired to support 140mph running, allowing journey times to be slashed across the region.

http://www.transportbriefing.co.uk/news/story?id=8664

Hopefully Reading to Swindon will be the first stretch to be upgraded.

_{Sorry, I can't post the article as it's behind one of those pesky password things, I wish they wouldn't do that.}

[Electric train]

This is no surprise, the OHLE design is rated higher than this, the route in the 1970's was upgraded in readiness for the HSDT^▸ (Original name for High Speed Train)'s and the gas turbine APT^▸ (Advanced Passenger Train)-E ran many trials at enhanced speed, my guess is very little work will be required.  The major difference will be for maintenance teams access to the line side in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) where line speed is greater than 125 is restricted to non train periods

[JayMac]

And signalling Electric train?

Work will, I assume, be needed on that front.

History tells us that great strides can be made in permanent way and rolling stock, but for some reason the signalling bods fail to keep up.

[IndustryInsider]

It won't happen until all the lineside signals have been removed and ERTMS^▸ (European Rail Traffic Management System.) cab signalling controls the trains, scheduled for full implementation by 2025 on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) I believe?  I presume the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) (in electric mode at least) will be capable of 140mph running?  Though there was no mention of that in the recent Government announcement.

[JayMac]

If Hitachi can supply a train that is capable of 125mph in normal timetabled running but runs up to 140mph when needed (cf Class 395) then one supposes the same will be true of IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.). Lets not forget, previous and current UK^▸ (United Kingdom) rolling stock, some from as far back as the 1970s (HST^▸ (High Speed Train), APT^▸ (Advanced Passenger Train)-P, Class 91 225, Pendolino) was/is capable of more than 125mph. Other constraints, rather than rolling stock engineering, prevented the greater speeds.

[SandTEngineer]

It won't happen until all the lineside signals have been removed and ERTMS^▸ (European Rail Traffic Management System.) cab signalling controls the trains, scheduled for full implementation by 2025 on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) I believe?  I presume the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) (in electric mode at least) will be capable of 140mph running?  Though there was no mention of that in the recent Government announcement.

Well it did on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) where flashing green signals were installed in 1988 as a trial for 140mph running.
See Section 2.122 lower down the page here http://www.railsigns.co.uk/sect2page7/sect2page7.html
and Figure 8 at the bottom here http://www.railsigns.co.uk/info/aspseq1/aspseq1.html

[JayMac]

I'm interested to know why 'flashing green' wasn't taken further at the time. Was it European legislation regarding signalling above 200kph (125mph) or other technical/operational issues here in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)?

[SandTEngineer]

I'm interested to know why 'flashing green' wasn't taken further at the time. Was it European legislation regarding signalling above 200kph (125mph) or other technical/operational issues here in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)?

I think it was abandoned as the Class 91 was eventually never authorised to travel above 125mph.

[IndustryInsider]

Plus it was deemed that 125mph was the maximum sensible operational speed with trackside signals in Great Britain, hence it won't happen again until ERTMS^▸ (European Rail Traffic Management System.).

[Electric train]

I'm interested to know why 'flashing green' wasn't taken further at the time. Was it European legislation regarding signalling above 200kph (125mph) or other technical/operational issues here in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)?

I think it was abandoned as the Class 91 was eventually never authorised to travel above 125mph.

The full ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) electrification was opened for full passenger service in 1991 (if I recall correctly) privatisation loomed in 1994 which took the steam right out of the 140mph project, also there were some (and still are) power supply problems on the ECML which I think was the real reason which privatisation would have stalled the planned changes indeed Cores Mill was not added into the ECML until 2001 and even that was not implement in full and is not due to be until the upgrade to the AT system is done in the next few years.

[Rhydgaled]

I thought the problem with the flashing greens was that it was too hard to tell whether they were flashing or not when traveling at high speed. That's just what I've read somewhere.

Also, for 140mph running on GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line), does it really have to wait until the lineside signals are removed? I thought stock that actualy has ETRMS fitted would run with cab signaling as if the lineside signals weren't there, but the lineside signals would be left so trains that don't have ETRMS can still be used.

[grahame]

Also, for 140mph running on GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line), does it really have to wait until the lineside signals are removed? I thought stock that actualy has ETRMS fitted would run with cab signaling as if the lineside signals weren't there, but the lineside signals would be left so trains that don't have ETRMS can still be used.

Common sense suggests to me that with ETRMS fitted trains and lineside signals, trains that are not ETRMS could be run up to 125 m.p.h. (based on sighting the signals) with those with are fitted with the new system where sighting is not required able to run faster.  There's a clear capacity issue on heavily used lines, with each slow train (! if you think 125 is slow) gobbling up several slots between the fast trains ... but that's already a current issue.

[paul7575]

I thought the problem with the flashing greens was that it was too hard to tell whether they were flashing or not when traveling at high speed. That's just what I've read somewhere.

That's right - and you have to see the full sequence of the flashing, which takes too long, or might not be pssoible on curves.   Otherwise a green that just failed at the very instant you approached it could be mistaken for a flash off.  I also suspect that a steady green can appear to flash just the same if sighting is affected by fleeting obstructions between the viewer and the signal - such as signal gantries.
Speed up the flashing, and persistence of vision might be a problem, especially with the time taken for a filament lamp to go off and on. (Possibly better with LEDs though)

[paul7575]

Good new for commuters, as the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) is to be wired to support 140mph running, allowing journey times to be slashed across the region.

What about ordinary passengers?   

Paul

[Btline]

I'd imagine that the fast lines between Reading and Swindon will only be IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) though, as XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) run on the slows do they not?

Of course, why not have XC running IEPs on the fasts too!