Extending Crossrail to Reading - ongoing discussion, merged topic

[whole diary]

[Adelante_CCT]

At the risk of stating the obvious, it would be good to see the proposed service pattern at least for the east end of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), with stopping patterns, line usage, frequencies, stock type, train lengths etc.  When will this be available?

If I remember correctly in one of the recent pdf publications (possibly a network rail or GWR one, I can't remember, it was mentioned on this forum about 2 months ago) they talked about having created a 2019 draft timetable, I think it was called 'Timetable 5' or 'Version 5' something along those lines, whether anyone has access to this?.... Unfortunately more than likely anyone that does have access wouldn't be allowed to re-publish

[paul7575]

Doesn't the Western route study define a 2019 service pattern?   Might have to be distilled from a number of different sections, but it includes a number of tables showing peak services by train type and capacity, and any number of line drawings showing all the different routes.

Paul

[Adelante_CCT]

If I remember correctly in one of the recent pdf publications (possibly a network rail or GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) one, I can't remember, it was mentioned on this forum about 2 months ago) they talked about having created a 2019 draft timetable, I think it was called 'Timetable 5' or 'Version 5' something along those lines, whether anyone has access to this?.... Unfortunately more than likely anyone that does have access wouldn't be allowed to re-publish

From Augusts WRS^▸ (Western Route Study - Network Rail's successor to the RUS):

A proposed development timetable has been constructed for 2019 (known as ^Iteration 5^) which is based on a number of assumptions for the deployment and operation of the new SETs^▸ (Super Express Train (now IET)), EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit), Crossrail and freight.

At the risk of stating the obvious, it would be good to see the proposed service pattern at least for the east end of GWR, with stopping patterns, line usage, frequencies, stock type, train lengths etc.  When will this be available?

Doesn't the Western route study define a 2019 service pattern?   Might have to be distilled from a number of different sections, but it includes a number of tables showing peak services by train type and capacity, and any number of line drawings showing all the different routes.

Yes and no, it does show proposed tph between origin and destination, but no explanation about what stops these will call at.

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

Doesn't the Western route study define a 2019 service pattern?   Might have to be distilled from a number of different sections, but it includes a number of tables showing peak services by train type and capacity, and any number of line drawings showing all the different routes.

Paul

Paul, thank you.  I'd forgotten that this document contained such detailed info.  I've just been looking at Section G: Reading-Didcot-Oxford, and must admit to being somewhat taken aback by how many more trains they're planning to run, including more freight paths and East-West services from/to Reading.  I'd love to see a draft timetable for Reading - Oxford.

Just relevant to the topic I hope, as what happens east of Reading affects stopping services west of Reading.

 

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

... and to go back to where we started with this, ie platform capacity at Reading, it may not be possible to construct the timetable for Crossrail, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Reading ^ Oxford stoppers, East-West services etc in a way which minimises RL platform requirements at Reading.  There will be many other factors involved.

I still think RL platform capacity at Reading will be tight when the new services planned between now and 2019 start up.

[Electric train]

... and to go back to where we started with this, ie platform capacity at Reading, it may not be possible to construct the timetable for Crossrail, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Reading ^ Oxford stoppers, East-West services etc in a way which minimises RL platform requirements at Reading.  There will be many other factors involved.

I still think RL platform capacity at Reading will be tight when the new services planned between now and 2019 start up.

The Reading Oxford stoppers could be replaced by EastWest Rail services, the Crossrail services I suspect will be on a fairly quick turn round at Reading I wonder if it will be one out and one in the same platform worse case the occupation of two platforms will not be for extended periods of time

[Adelante_CCT]

... and to go back to where we started with this, ie platform capacity at Reading, it may not be possible to construct the timetable for Crossrail, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Reading – Oxford stoppers, East-West services etc in a way which minimises RL platform requirements at Reading.  There will be many other factors involved.
I still think RL platform capacity at Reading will be tight when the new services planned between now and 2019 start up.

The Reading Oxford stoppers could be replaced by EastWest Rail services, the Crossrail services I suspect will be on a fairly quick turn round at Reading I wonder if it will be one out and one in the same platform worse case the occupation of two platforms will not be for extended periods of time

Below is an extract from the Route Study

The 2019 ITSS anticipates that two trains per hour running from Bedford/Milton Keynes to Oxford will be extended to Reading in place of the existing stopping service over this section of route, picking up intermediate station calls. This timetable solution is driven by the limited capacity available over the two-track section from 2019 between Oxford and Didcot and at Didcot East Junction

This would suggest that the intermediate stops will be taken over by the east-west trains, therefore meaning stations between Radley and Tilehurst (Didcot excepted) would lose their direct services into London, it would also require a change at Reading for smaller journeys such as to Twyford or Maidenhead. Then again further back in the same document:

Considering market potential highlights the following possible
linkages:
^ London to Oxford (stopping service). An existing service pattern
which links significant origins and destinations west and east of
Reading

This would suggest that they plan on taking out a direct (eg: Tilehurst to Twyford)  service from 2019, however they realise that this may be an incorrect decision, and are already figuring how to re-instate this direct service after it has been removed... Crazy!

[stuving]

This would suggest that they plan on taking out a direct (eg: Tilehurst to Twyford)  service from 2019, however they realise that this may be an incorrect decision, and are already figuring how to re-instate this direct service after it has been removed... Crazy!

Well, the loss of the through stopping trains is due to Crossrail on the east side, and lack of capacity on the west side. The Route Study is inconsistent as to what any "residual" GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) service on the Crossrail route would do in 2019 or in 2043, but explicit that East-West Rail can't be added to other services, so it takes over the stops.

The "2043 ITSS" includes extra services that need new infrastructure, such as the Didcot East grade separation and/or 4-tracking to Oxford. Whether any new cross-Reading stopping service could go all the way through to Paddington is very questionable, as is the need. Capacity closer to London is tight already, and none of the infrastructure options looks convincing. In any case, how far would you choose to go on an all-station stopping service? Most of the other through-Reading options discussed only make sense if they are reasonably fast, as joining them up makes them even longer-distance services.

Should we be thinking more in terms of a genuine Reading suburban service? (Think "Crossreading".)

[ChrisB]

In the long run, I can't see the franchisee of EastWest wanting local stops from East Anglia to Reading (or Heathrow Western access?)....it'd be like stopping XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) at those stations....

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

I agree.  If you^re on a Reading to Milton Keynes service you don^t want to be stopping at every plank of wood.  And for Tilehurst/Pangbourne etc passengers a through service to Maidenhead and London is much more useful than one to Milton Keynes, which is why it looks far better to link the Rdg ^ Oxford stoppers with the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) semi-fasts to London and not with East-West.

Which leaves the Rdg ^ Oxford route capacity problem in 2019 unresolved.

[ChrisB]

I can't see EastWest running beyond Oxford by that date....may not even be running at all, depending on the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) review report coming at the end of the month!

[Electric train]

I can't see EastWest running beyond Oxford by that date....may not even be running at all, depending on the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) review report coming at the end of the month!

EWrail is funded by the Local Authority collaboration, NR are the delivery vehicle and infrastructure operator, any proposed changes to NR will only me NR's bit gets handed to whichever German /  Dutch / French / Spanish / Chinese / Russian etc chunks of our railway get given too

[SandTEngineer]

Latest Crossrail construction video updates here: https://player.vimeo.com/video/148478024 and here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65ok77gPdXo&feature=youtu.be

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

Several senior GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) staff have talked in the past about starting some of the Reading/Gatwick trains back from Oxford after the Reading underpass had been made useable. Perhaps this could explain the mention of more Oxford/Reading trains?

[paul7575]

Several senior GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) staff have talked in the past about starting some of the Reading/Gatwick trains back from Oxford after the Reading underpass had been made useable.

Problem for me is that through trains across Reading to/from Gatwick don't fit the electrification strategy, or the rolling stock cascade strategy.   It would be a bit of an own goal to introduce them and then remove them just a couple of years later.

I suspect such proposals in the past might have predated the electrification decision - there was of course a period when Reading remodelling was all go but wires were not...

Paul