Extending Crossrail to Reading - ongoing discussion, merged topic

[whole diary]

[paul7575]

Now, the service pattern in Stage 1 was, I thought, to have FGW^▸ (First Great Western) only running to Slough. Perhaps that has already changed in franchise discussions?

That was not the case - FGW had two tph on the reliefs into Paddington as well as the shuttle to Slough.  This pattern has always been shown in previous versions of the combined Crossrail/GW^▸ (Great Western)  service pattern on the reliefs.

There have been regular suggestions (including some in this forum) that for instance 'Crossrail will take over the entire relief line service' - but that has never been supported by the evidence on Crossrail's various 'timetable info' web pages, which has been consistently as shown here:

Other operators^ services are assumed to be:

2 trains per hour from Reading calling at Twyford, Maidenhead, Slough, Hayes & Harlington and Ealing Broadway to Paddington;
2 trains per hour from Reading calling at Twyford, Maidenhead, Taplow, Burnham and terminating at Slough;
1 through train from Henley on Thames to Paddington; and
1 through train from Bourne End to Paddington

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/route/surface/western-section/

I reckon the bolded service above will now be scrubbed completely, as will the west facing bay at Slough...

Paul

[ChrisB]

From a document supplied to the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Customer Panel this morning....

Crossrail West station final destination announcement: 27 March

"This is a welcome move by Crossrail and the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about). Extending Crossrail through to Reading is a much more elegant solution for customers. This will secure Twyford's through-trains to London, make it easier for passengers from the west of our network to connect with Crossrail services, and inject important additional seating capacity between Reading and London.

"In the shorter term it removes the need for disruptive construction work at Slough station, which would have offered minimal practical benefit to customers at significant cost.

"This news also creates an opportunity for us to explore as an industry how more investment in infrastructure could create extra capacity and potentially reduce Crossrail journey times to destinations such as Reading."

along with some Q&As....

Last year you said you were talking to the DfT about new electric trains for the Thames Valley. How will this news impact your choice of new trains?

We continue to talk with the DfT about new electric trains for this part of our network, and we are both clear that any new trains would need to be compatible with the Crossrail timetable.

Surely this decision means customers at Slough will see less investment in their station. Why are they losing out?

The original Crossrail proposals required a shuttle service to operate to Slough, and a considerable amount of work at the station to accommodate them.

This would have meant sustained disruptive work for customers at Slough while the work was carried out.

Extending Crossrail removes the need for that work while improving connections for many of our customers. This is the right thing to do.

Did we not waste resources/ cause unnecessary customer disruption preparing Maidenhead as the final destination of Crossrail West of Paddington?

This is really a question for Crossrail. However, Maidenhead will still remain the western sidings for the Crossrail Trains and a point where staff employed by the Crossrail operator will be based therefore the design of their facilities and that of the sidings is still relevant.
In the long run, we believe this is the better option for customers and in the short term will reduce disruption during associated Crossrail construction works.


What now needs to be done to prepare Reading for Crossrail?  Will it involve further customer disruption beyond the projects completion date (summer 2015)

Reading is able to cope with the Crossrail trains arriving along with the corresponding changes to the timetable. The station has been developed with these potential changes in mind so will only require minor modifications.

It is not anticipated that today^s announcement will cause any disruptions beyond those necessary for completion of the current project.

-  How will Crossrail services beginning from Reading impact services provided by the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) on that route?

A new timetable will need to be introduced to accommodate the CRL trains and this will require some changes to the services supplied by the TOC. But with the introduction of the Crossrail trains and new longer TOC trains passengers should see more trains with increased capacity,  especially during the peak periods making their journeys far easier. 

[paul7575]

That all makes sense - and confirms what I'd deduced over the last few months, that Maidenhead would still be Crossrail's sort of western operations base if only a couple of trains  went to Reading.

Of course if it had ever been likely that NO Crossrails would terminate at Maidenhead that would be a slightly different matter.  It has all seemed a bit obvious in hindsight, what with NR^» (Network Rail - home page) carrying on with the Maidenhead enabling works as always planned, but not yet started anything (as far as I recall from a few weeks ago) at Slough... 

Paul

[tom m]

I wonder what impact this will have on Heathrow expess ambition to run to Reading:

https://www.heathrowexpress.com/news/2014-02-09-ambition-for-heathrow-reading-express-service-unveiled

[paul7575]

I wonder what impact this will have on Heathrow expess ambition to run to Reading:

https://www.heathrowexpress.com/news/2014-02-09-ambition-for-heathrow-reading-express-service-unveiled

AFAICT^▸ (as far as I can tell) there should be no impact on WRatH due to this as the number of trains on the reliefs between Maidenhead and Reading hasn't changed, and between Slough and Maidenhead it has reduced..

Paul

[Btline]

The final 2 tph to be run by FGW^▸ (First Great Western) from Paddington to Reading should be switched to Crossrail. What is the point of keeping it?

All trains from West of Reading should then run fast to Paddington.
Commuters from Radley deserve a faster service and running more fast services will lighten the load of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) at Didcot Parkway and

With faster acceleration, higher line speeds, and no need to change in London; Maidenhead and Slough commuters will not need HSTs to stop on the fast lines.

[Electric train]

I think this is a sensible first move, it maintains the current 4 tph Padd Reading locals (2 tph terminate Reading 2 tph continue to Oxford / Banbury) the Crossrail 2 tph replacing the 2 Reading terminators.

There are other new services to Reading that will potentially come online when Eastwest Rail starts.

I see a Reading MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) is getting all hot n bothered about it and wants Reading crossrail nonstop to Padd what part of metro train service don't he understand.

I suspect there will be further changes towards the end of the decade as the full impact of GW^▸ (Great Western) electrification, Crossrail and Eastwest rail is assessed

[John R]

.
Commuters from Radley deserve a faster service and running more fast services will lighten the load of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) at Didcot Parkway and

Is that the same Radley that has around 114,000 entries and exits a year? (Which averages out at around 150 passengers a day.)  I can think of a lot of other stations that are more deserving causes.

Curious how on another thread, you're suggesting that Kingham (170,000 E&E) might lose its HST's.

[stuving]

From ITV London:

Why a Crossrail boost brings with it worries about fares and overcrowding
by Simon Harris, Political Correspondent - last updated Thu 27 Mar 2014

A Crossrail boost to the Thames Valley could raise new concerns about fares and overcrowding.

The ^15 billion commuter rail line from Essex and Kent to Maidenhead in Berkshire is being extended to Reading.

Crossrail trains will also stop at Twyford, increasing the total number of stations on the route to 40. It could mean eastbound trains in the morning rush hour are already full by the time they reach other Crossrail stations.

It is unclear whether commuters from Reading and Twyford will be able to use Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) cards.

Transport for London admitted an Oyster deal has yet to be reached with mainline rail commuters, although London mayor Boris Johnson is hopeful.

"I would like Oyster to be extended all over the south east of England. We are constantly talking to the train companies.

I am sure we will be able to do a deal."

Is that the laziest and least convincing bit of coverage tenuously dangled off this item of news? You'd hope so, though I rather doubt it.

[ChrisB]

Not a problem though even if this happens - it's only two out of how many-an-hour?? At least two others will start from Maidenhead - although I suspect Reading pax will mostly jump on HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to Padd until Old Oak Common comes on stream....

[Thatcham Crossing]

Great news re. the extension.

I thought I'd try to compare the journeys I do (quite frequently, but not daily) today, compared to how they might be once Crossrail is working. When I go into London, its mostly to the City or Canary Wharf.

Now:
Thatcham to Reading to Paddington - whether direct semi-fast or via a change at Reading, it's around an hour
Paddington to Canary Wharf - various tube/DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) routes, but all around 40 mins minimum.
Allowing for station connections/changes etc. it's never less than a 1hr 45min journey.

Crossrail:
Thatcham to Reading, change to Crossrail to Paddington (assuming 40 mins for the latter, as per current publicity) = 1hr 10 mins
Paddington to Liverpool St/Stratford, currently being touted as 15-20 mins.
Then maybe a short further hop on tube/DLR/foot to final destination = 10-15 mins.
Total around 1hr 40mins min.

So there might be a negligible time saving, depending on final destination. But the gamechanger will be the cross-London piece which will make the journey seem much quicker and more pleasant.

[ChrisB]

Hmm, Crossrail Reading to Padd I've seen listed as close to an hour currently - all depends whether any skip-stop in final TT

[Western Enterprise]

With faster acceleration, higher line speeds, and no need to change in London; Maidenhead and Slough commuters will not need HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to stop on the fast lines.

 
There will still be a demand for the fasts from Maidenhead and Slough: even a 40 min journey vs 20 mins?
Crossrail is also not going to go where everybody want to go.

[ChrisB]

Most will find it easier to change at a Crossrail underground station than Paddington....

[NickB]

As a Maidenhead-->Canary Wharf commuter I have always planned to be taking the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to Paddington (direct) and then Crossrail from Paddington to Canary Wharf.

No WAY am I going to elect to take a stopping service from Maidenhead to Paddington.

I hope these choices don't get removed.