Extending Crossrail to Reading - ongoing discussion, merged topic

[whole diary]

[trainer]

No toilets either...

In its announcement of the news that Bombardier have got the contract for the trains, BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) News informed its viewers that this was good news not just for Derby, but for the wider economy as suppliers would also now have some more security.  Cue feature on train toilet manufacturer.  I was surprised and thought I must have made a mistake over the spec.  The above postings confirm that the error was not mine. Thank you.

[Thatcham Crossing]

Not sure why ellendune thought I was being gloomy.....I was just wondering out loud whether Crossrail coming to Reading would be of benefit to those who live beyond there and need to get to the eastern side of the Capital.

It definitely will be at the London end, as it seems it will significantly reduce the time across town to places like Canary Wharf.

But, unless there is a semi-fast type service from RDG^‡(resolve) (stopping for example at Maidenhead, Slough and maybe Ealing Broadway), then it seems to make more sense to ride an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) (or IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) I guess by then!) fast into PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) and interchange with Crossrail there.

Thanks for all the inputs and continuing discussion.

[ellendune]

Apologies if I misinterpreted your views.

It makes no sense for the Reading to Paddington stopping services to be split at Maidenhead. But equally no one expects that the take the Reading Paddington flow.  However there should be a semi-fast service to Paddington, Perhaps stopping at Twyford, Maidenhead and Slough.  But this should be an emu not an IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) or HST^▸ (High Speed Train).

[ChrisB]

Be interesting to know how mant travel from/through Reading & use the stopper to anywhere east of Maidenhead....

If Crossrail did replace the stoppers, I reckon they'd also launch their own fares at say, 60% of the Any Permitted. That might persuade some to use it all the way....a seat all the way to canary wharf, along with a sizable chuck of money back in their pocket?....

But those who choose to change from fast trains, I reckon Old Oak Common HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) station (where all fast FGW^▸ (First Great Western) trains will stop), once built, will become the major interchange for Crossrail, and reduce Paddington to a throughput of something like Reading.

[James]

Chris how likely is it that Old Oak Common will be built?
Has it been confirmed, and if it has where is that information from?

[ChrisB]

It's in the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) documents, isn't it?

[Electric train]

Chris how likely is it that Old Oak Common will be built?
Has it been confirmed, and if it has where is that information from?

It's as likely as HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)).  When HS2 gets built OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) as an interchange will get built.

There is a train of thought, that is apparently gaining favour, of missing out Euston and connecting HS2 to HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) north of St Pancras, there by OOC would be the London hub for HS2.  Euston is proving to be expensive

[James]

It's in the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) documents, isn't it?

OK fair enough, since my computer has issues with opening up certain files, is it the case that Old Oak Common will be built on separate track  and not a add on station on the main Great Western Mainline, since there is too many of those small stations around, adding to journey times if OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) is build on the reliefs.
And if they have all that money to build HS2 why not 6 track the whole London to Reading line with 6 tracks boosting capacity on a line that needs extra capacity desperately. Building HS2 is time consuming and not really necessary when there's already the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) and ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) which could be upgraded further. 

[paul7575]

There is a train of thought, that is apparently gaining favour, of missing out Euston and connecting HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) to HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) north of St Pancras, there by OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) would be the London hub for HS2.  Euston is proving to be expensive

Are you possibly referring here to the 'Euston Cross' proposals?

AFAICT^▸ (as far as I can tell) DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have ruled it out completely, within the recent 'design refinement consultation' response here, page 6:

HS2 Ltd has examined the Euston Cross proposal at a high level. From their analysis it is clear that this would be a substantially more expensive proposal ^ broadly estimated at a net additional cost of ^4bn to ^6bn. The construction of an underground railway station between Euston and Kings Cross would be technically challenging and add many years to the construction programme. If parts of the new station had to be constructed using an ^open box^ method, as HS2 Ltd^s engineers believe, then parts of the Somers Town Estate would need to be demolished to make way for the temporary construction works. Such a strategic rethinking of HS2 would require a substantially greater justification in terms of future passenger demand east of Euston than we consider to exist. For these reasons, the Secretary of State is clear that Euston Cross is not a realistic alternative to the revised Euston scheme.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/260506/cm-8758.pdf

[Electric train]

There is a train of thought, that is apparently gaining favour, of missing out Euston and connecting HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) to HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) north of St Pancras, there by OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) would be the London hub for HS2.  Euston is proving to be expensive

Are you possibly referring here to the 'Euston Cross' proposals?

AFAICT^▸ (as far as I can tell) DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have ruled it out completely, within the recent 'design refinement consultation' response here, page 6:

HS2 Ltd has examined the Euston Cross proposal at a high level. From their analysis it is clear that this would be a substantially more expensive proposal ^ broadly estimated at a net additional cost of ^4bn to ^6bn. The construction of an underground railway station between Euston and Kings Cross would be technically challenging and add many years to the construction programme. If parts of the new station had to be constructed using an ^open box^ method, as HS2 Ltd^s engineers believe, then parts of the Somers Town Estate would need to be demolished to make way for the temporary construction works. Such a strategic rethinking of HS2 would require a substantially greater justification in terms of future passenger demand east of Euston than we consider to exist. For these reasons, the Secretary of State is clear that Euston Cross is not a realistic alternative to the revised Euston scheme.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/260506/cm-8758.pdf

Not quite, more a "London" station at OOC next stop Stratford (not that Euro trains stop there) or Ebbsfleet etc.

[Southern Stag]

It's in the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) documents, isn't it?

OK fair enough, since my computer has issues with opening up certain files, is it the case that Old Oak Common will be built on separate track  and not a add on station on the main Great Western Mainline, since there is too many of those small stations around, adding to journey times if OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) is build on the reliefs.
And if they have all that money to build HS2 why not 6 track the whole London to Reading line with 6 tracks boosting capacity on a line that needs extra capacity desperately. Building HS2 is time consuming and not really necessary when there's already the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) and ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) which could be upgraded further. 

Upgrading the WCML will still be expensive, and be hugely disruptive, remember all the problems with the last West Coast modernisation. HS2 will act as an alternative for the WCML, allowing fast services to be diverted off of it. It will provide a similar capacity boost as 6-tracking the WCML, but 6-tracking the WCML as far as the divergence off to Northampton is something that is unlikely to ever happen. HS2 will provide a huge capacity increase of the WCML, with the added bonus of speeding up journey times and without all the disruption that upgrading the WCML would entail.

[James]

It's in the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) documents, isn't it?

OK fair enough, since my computer has issues with opening up certain files, is it the case that Old Oak Common will be built on separate track  and not a add on station on the main Great Western Mainline, since there is too many of those small stations around, adding to journey times if OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) is build on the reliefs.
And if they have all that money to build HS2 why not 6 track the whole London to Reading line with 6 tracks boosting capacity on a line that needs extra capacity desperately. Building HS2 is time consuming and not really necessary when there's already the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) and ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) which could be upgraded further. 

Upgrading the WCML will still be expensive, and be hugely disruptive, remember all the problems with the last West Coast modernisation. HS2 will act as an alternative for the WCML, allowing fast services to be diverted off of it. It will provide a similar capacity boost as 6-tracking the WCML, but 6-tracking the WCML as far as the divergence off to Northampton is something that is unlikely to ever happen. HS2 will provide a huge capacity increase of the WCML, with the added bonus of speeding up journey times and without all the disruption that upgrading the WCML would entail.

Whilst it is true that any upgrade of the West Coast Mainline is likely to be expensive and disruptive, truthfully building a HS2 line will disrupt peoples livelihoods much deeper than upgrading existing lines, also the countryside doesn't need trains racing through at 250 mph. It will spoil the area. And when i was referring to 6 tracking, i meant between London and Reading, as thats were it is needed. Like i say disruption is a risk but there are lessons from the past that should be used so those same problems and issues don't arise again or are limited.

[Southern Stag]

I'm not sure why our Countryside is so special that it can't possibly have High Speed trains running through it, it happens in plenty of other countries worldwide. If HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) isn't built the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) is going to be able to take less freight so you're going to have lots more lorries clogging up the motorways. I'm not really aware of anybody complaining about how much High Speed 1 has spoiled the areas it is now running through. 6 tracking between London and Reading probably isn't needed in the medium term. Paddington-Reading is getting a capacity boost in the future with new trains with better acceleration and a new in cab signalling which will allow for closer signalling headways.

[James]

I'm not sure why our Countryside is so special that it can't possibly have High Speed trains running through it, it happens in plenty of other countries worldwide. If HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) isn't built the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) is going to be able to take less freight so you're going to have lots more lorries clogging up the motorways. I'm not really aware of anybody complaining about how much High Speed 1 has spoiled the areas it is now running through. 6 tracking between London and Reading probably isn't needed in the medium term. Paddington-Reading is getting a capacity boost in the future with new trains with better acceleration and a new in cab signalling which will allow for closer signalling headways.

To be honest it's more peoples homes that will get destroyed if HS2 goes ahead, I can't see people being quite about that to be fair. I am still thinking why such a scheme is needed when other parts of the country have no railways at all whilst other critical hubs need investment quickly, Yet others have 4 or 6 track railways with fast and slow passenger trains and now planned and frakly silly HS2 scheme.

[ellendune]

To be honest it's more peoples homes that will get destroyed if HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) goes ahead, I can't see people being quite about that to be fair. I am still thinking why such a scheme is needed when other parts of the country have no railways at all whilst other critical hubs need investment quickly, Yet others have 4 or 6 track railways with fast and slow passenger trains and now planned and frakly silly HS2 scheme.

The impressive thing about the hS2 route was how homes were affected. The announced changes at Euston has dramatically reduced that already. Its not just abut how much capacity there is already, but how much is needed!