fgw breathtaking fares

[whole diary]

[Tim]

In order to get to the bottom of what levels are sensible for fares we first need to answer this simple question:

Is the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) network as a whole subsidised by the taxpayer or not?  I know that FGW pay a premium to the treasury, but when you factor in what the treasury gives to NR^» (Network Rail - home page) in our region (and our share of the huge NR debt which will never be repaid and will end up on the Government's books sooner or later) is our railway subsidised or not?  I know that the Government tries to hide the answer but it must be out their somewhere.

Once you know the base cost then you ask how much extra subsidy the tax payer shoudl pay in order to buy social and environmental benefits.

If the whole of the SW's railways do not require government support and are in fact self supporting then you have a case for removing Government from the equation completely.

[simonw]

Determining the level of fares is difficult.

Factoring in NR^» (Network Rail - home page) work in our region is meaningless, the government has spend literally no money in this area for years, whilst virtually every other area of the country has received significant investment. There is a chance of significant work in the Reading area soon to increase capacity, but this still a fraction of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) levy the government.

The current fare structure it self is crazy and needs restructuring, for example,

Fares from BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) to Swindon are the same as BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) to Swindon.
Fares from BPW to Bath are more expensive hat BTM to Bath
Fares from BPW to Chippenham are the same as BTM to Chippenham 

I'd like to see fares charges at a reasonable mileage rate, and maybe a peak time premium. A pipe dream I know! Something like 15p per mile normally and 20/25p per mle for peak time journeys.

[Jim]

It's ^6 RTN is it not?

What ^6 return on the X39 Bath-Bristol...you can't be serious. ^6 to travel on a bus? for that price I'd pay the extra 80p and travel on the train though the X39 does have the advantage of taking you all the way into Bristol.

Well, they have the choice, quit moaning about high rail fares or take the cheaper alternative.

If I am honest though, I think if they managed to curb the trafic problem along BAth Road in to Bristol, where there is no bus lane, and if they removed some of the stops from the X39, I think it could be a viable alternative!

[Shazz]

Or they could do what they do from Cardiff > Swansea and run a half hourly express bus with 1 stop each end for ^5 return?

almost constantly full. (60 seater coach, not a useless bus)

[grahame]

May be the subject has moved on a bit, but I have been trying to make some sense of just how much fare box money is paid to H M Government in the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) franchise; it's a moving target - you can prove anything with the statistics if you choose your year carefully ;-)

In the current year (and up to 2008/9) First actually receives a subsidy per journey; it's decreasing and is just 13p in that last year.

From 2009 to 2016, First is to pay the Government 1.27 billion pounds and there is a forecast of 682 million journeys, meaning that 1.86 from each journey goes to the Chancellor. 

In the year 2015 / 2016 alone - the last year of the franchise - First is down to pay 312 million pounds on 110 million journeys - that's 2.83 per journey.

Of course, "pence per journey" is a poor measure, as it assumes the same amount being paid for a Clifon Down to Sea Mills journey as for a Penzance to Paddington one.

[Timmer]

Bath Chronicle article (link below.)
http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=180730&command=displayContent&sourceNode=232315&home=yes&more_nodeId1=163047&contentPK=19153667

Hmmm just what FGW^▸ (First Great Western) need...more publicity about discontentment amongst Bath commuters. Be all over the parish when the Chronicle comes out on Thursday. Surely last December isn't going to repeat itself all over again. I suppose that will depend on how many carriages FGW are able to lay on from next week with the 158s heading north and the 142s down in Devon not exactly behaving themselves.

[devon_metro]

Maybe the Devon Metro will get some publicity and we can all cause a riot like the Bristol lot. With the reliability of the 142s so far it wouldn't surprise me if the whole timetable fell apart!

[Lee]

Bath Chronicle article (link below.)
http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=180730&command=displayContent&sourceNode=232315&home=yes&more_nodeId1=163047&contentPK=19153667

Hmmm just what FGW^▸ (First Great Western) need...more publicity about discontentment amongst Bath commuters. Be all over the parish when the Chronicle comes out on Thursday. Surely last December isn't going to repeat itself all over again. I suppose that will depend on how many carriages FGW are able to lay on from next week with the 158s heading north and the 142s down in Devon not exactly behaving themselves.

Quote from the Save The Train forum :

I think the new boss might be in for a less than merry Christmas, as with the new timetable starting next week there are still several HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s to be 'refreshed', several staff to be trained to drive/train manage HST's, and general staff shortages affecting the whole region. Add to that the seasonal disruption caused by hoards of people going away for Xmas and many of the regular commuters still wanting to travel, and I can see it being a bloody time for all until around February when things should start to improve. I hope I'm wrong!

Bristol Evening Post article (link below.)
http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=145365&command=displayContent&sourceNode=145191&contentPK=19161815&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922

Update from Passenger Focus (link below.)
http://oldfieldparktrains.blogspot.com/2007/12/update-from-passenger-focus.html