Major new electrification projects to be anounced shortly

[whole diary]

[Richard Fairhurst]

Perhaps most interesting is what all this means for IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) bi-mode. With MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) giving up their Meridians - and maybe XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) giving up Voyagers on the NW-SE route? - there'll be a cascade of 22Xs with a good number of years left in them. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they end up down here, with bi-mode being quietly forgotten.

[broadgage]

My concerns are, as ever, about capacity and passenger comfort.
Despite the benifits of electric traction, most passengers will not regard replacing a proper HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) with a 4 car suburban EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) as an improvement.

In recent years the priority has been to replace facing seats at tables with bus seats, to minimise catering, to reduce legroom, and to replace long distance 2+2 seating with suburban 3+2 seating.
To increase fares for genuine improvements is perhaps fair enough, but to charge higher fares for shorter, higher density suburban type trains in place of formerly inter-city trains will not go down very well.

There is considerable resentment felt by regular passengers on services from London Liverpool street about the most recent improvements, 8 car high density trains instead of 12 car long distance units.
The surplus stock being returned to the leasing company.


This also begs the question, if TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) cant afford the leasing costs of existing full length EMUs, how are they going to afford the presumably higher leasing costs of newly built EMUs for newly electrified lines ?

Or is it taken for granted that the new trains will be shorter ?

[mjones]

Perhaps most interesting is what all this means for IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) bi-mode. With MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) giving up their Meridians - and maybe XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) giving up Voyagers on the NW-SE route? - there'll be a cascade of 22Xs with a good number of years left in them. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they end up down here, with bi-mode being quietly forgotten.

Surely the timescales aren't going to be right for that? The GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) electrification will be done before MML won't it, and bi-modes will be needed for the Cotswolds, Cheltenham etc services before any displacement of 22xs could take place.

[mjones]

 

...
I think regarding the MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about), there's a lot of scope for incremental additions before it is even started.  MML won't necessarily commence until mid-period, because GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) will still be in progress in 2017.  So they could add Sheffield to Leeds and Doncaster in  the next HLOS^▸ (High Level Output Specification - the DfT's High Level Output Specification, which has specified to Network Rail the outputs that need to be delivered within a Control Period (CP)) in 2017 and still tack it onto the MML lengths that've been announced so far?

Paul

Hopefully- it seems churlish to seem to be complaining after so much has been announced today, including electrified E-W!, but the Sheffield Leeds gap does rather stand out now. Given what you'd said previously about the indicative budget looking like it did include routes north of Sheffield, I wonder what has changed. Did the route south of Sheffield end up costing a lot more than expected?  But if the expectation is that the timescale is such that these infills follow logically into the next CP then this makes a lot more sense.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Surely the timescales aren't going to be right for that? The GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) electrification will be done before MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) won't it, and bi-modes will be needed for the Cotswolds, Cheltenham etc services before any displacement of 22xs could take place.

New trains will be needed when HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) break, rather than when the wires go up; there's no reason you can't keep HSTs running under the wires. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have seemed fairly optimistic about the chances of keeping them going for a few more years, and obviously electrification to Bristol and Swansea reduces the size of the fleet that has to be maintained.