Ideal Rolling Stock for Cornwall

[whole diary]

[Southern Stag]

There is perhaps some merit in the idea. ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about)'s are apparently now getting a bit apprehensive about financing new diesel units because of the plans for electrification and the rising cost of oil. They feel that they won't have a guaranteed use for them for their whole lifespan because 25 years in the future DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) may be very expensive for operators for run, so more and more electrification will happen. Life extending existing DMUs provides some DMUs to run on secondary lines for now, as if they are to be electrified, it will be a little way in the future yet.

[FarWestJohn]

I never understand why you cannot build a DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) that could be converted to an EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit).

If the DMU had a pantograph well and electric transmission and space allowed for a transformer then surely it could be converted to an EMU.

Many DC^▸ (Direct Current) EMUs already have pantograph wells and room allowed for a transformer so why could not a DMU be built in a similar way?

Might need a new name, an EDMU perhaps?

[eightf48544]

Very interesting though Farwest John. It's basically what they are trying to do with the Voyagers which have diesel electric transmission already but in that case they would be adding a pantograph/transformer car to the set. Presumably when there's sufficient wires the diesel engines could be removed. Especialy as I undestand it they are basically modular packs

Good idea but a pity the units are so cramped, but at least tehyw ould vibrate as much.

[grahame]

Are we moving towards a regional / local version of IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) here?

[anthony215]

Perhaps somthing like the class 172's operated by London Midland but also equiped with a pantograph .

I suppose it could work with a 3 carriage unit however It wouldnt be very good if it was a 2 carriage unit unless you order a additional pantograph carriage.

Still perhaps bi-mode might be good on local/regional services but it is certainly no good for intercity services and lets hope the cost of IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) will finally kill it and the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) listens and lets the franchise bidders come up with their own proposals.

[Tim]

I suspect the Uk's widespread DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) use will with hindsight be seen as a passing phase. 

Electrification reduces the need for DMUs, but also rising passenger numbers even if there is no electrification.  Once you go from needing 2 or 3 coaches to run a service and start thinking of 4, 5 or 6 coaches, the economics tilt in favour of loco and stock.   passenger numbers are growing by 3 to 9% per year.  This means that in 10 to 20 years by which time the 158, 159 will be retiring, the 2 car trains will need to be 3 car, the 3 car 4 or 5 and the 4 car 5 or 6.  My prediction is that the current generation of DMUs will be mostly replaced by EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) or loco and stock with only a relatively small demand for a cheap, basic 15x type DMU for use on tertiary routes.       

[grahame]

As I recall, the 11 x 4 car units planned but then cancelled for Cardiff -> Portsmouth were to be financed and run by a RoSCo called "Diesel Trains Ltd", set up by the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and owned by them due to the difficulty of persuading the commercial RoSCos to build more diesel trains against an uncertain future.  With no party likely to stay in power for the whole lifetime of any new trains, I can understand the reluctance of the commercial RoSCos to build trains when the pendulum has swung one way, only to be hit by it as it swings back the other way.

[eightf48544]

What about something like the French:

The Autorail ^ Grande Capacit^ (literally, high-capacity railcar) is a category of multiple unit train built at Bombardier Transportation's plant in Crespin for the French rail operator SNCF^▸ (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways).[1] The AGC will also be produced by Remarul 16 Februarie in Romania at Cluj-Napoca for several east European rail operators.[2]

There are 3/4 varients Staright DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit), straight EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) and 2 bi modes one 1.5KV and the other AC.

    X 76500: diesel variant, also designated XGC
    Z 27500: electric variant capable of running on both 1.5 kV DC^▸ (Direct Current) and 25 kV 50 Hz AC, also designated ZGC
    B 81500: dual-mode variant, capable of running on both diesel (by means of a diesel-electric engine) and 1.5 kV DC (by means of a pantograph), also designated BGC
    B 82500: dual-mode variant, capable of running on both diesel (by means of a diesel-electric motor) and 1.5 kV DC/25 kV AC (by means of a pantograph), also designated BGC; these trains are identical to the B 81500-series except for their capability of operating on AC power.

Source Wikapedia.

The bi-mode are used on outer suburban services from Paris (I think Est) and i understand fro friends who've used them change mode on the run.

[Btline]

It does depend on government. Until recently there was little excitement for electrification.
But hopefully the three teams that are in action now will continue - i.e. straight to the MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) and doing the rest of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) in the 2020s. Afte that, who knows? XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) infill?

[grahame]

The bi-mode are used on outer suburban services from Paris (I think Est) and i understand fro friends who've used them change mode on the run.

Between the station ^merainville - Pontault-Combault and station of Roissy-en-Brie on the line Paris - Mulhouse , switching from electric heat mode and vice versa while driving is allowed, the line being equipped accordingly. This is a world first. In contrast, the line of alpine corridor in the region Rh^ne-Alpes , change the thermal mode in electric mode (and vice versa) is at a standstill in stations of Chamb^ry and Aix-les- baths .

From .. Wikipedia France 

[Southern Stag]

It does depend on government. Until recently there was little excitement for electrification.
But hopefully the three teams that are in action now will continue - i.e. straight to the MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) and doing the rest of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) in the 2020s. Afte that, who knows? XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) infill?

Network Rail are very pro-electrification and they do seem to have a plan for further electrification, and they are the ones who want all TransPennine routes including those to Hull and Scarborough electrified, so a complete job will be done. The problem of course is getting the funding.

[eightf48544]

Although slight change of subject in view of recent events I bet everyone wishes the Settle and Carlise and GSW line were electrified!

[Timmer]

Although slight change of subject in view of recent events I bet everyone wishes the Settle and Carlise and GSW line were electrified!

It says a lot about the S&C^▸ (Settle and Carlisle ) when both the East and West coast lines were closed it was still open. And to think they were going to close it.