From the ORR: 'Fares and ticketing ^ information and complexity report'

[whole diary]

[Rhydgaled]

Over 50% of online respondents agreed that ^it is a bit of a lottery as to whether you find the best price for a rail journey or not^. 45% said that the fare system is too complicated for them to understand.

I'd guess that one of the major reasons for this problem is split-ticketing. Each stretch of line should have a pence-per-mile associated with it, which would vary depending on peak times etc. but the costs would be the same no matter what the origin/destonation is (and the peak rate would automatically only be applied to the part of the journey which is peak). This might be difficult when you have a ticket that allows travel over multiple permitted routes, but what on earth is route 'any permitted' anyway? Unless passengers choose to restrict themselves to an 'Advance' (booked-train only, agreed it is a silly name), they may be paying for a fully-flexible any-permited route ticket but are likely only aware of one or two obvious valid routes, so are paying for more flexibility of route than they actually need.

For my recent rail exploration, I spent a whole day trying to find good splits to avoid the full cost of the journey, which was frighteningly expensive. I saved quite a bit (partly because there were advances available for parts of the return trip, but not altogether).

Some other problems/ideas with the fare system:

• Return tickets only seem to come in Day Return and 'any day within a month' return forms, again paying for more flexibility than you might need (introduce a 'named days only' return which is valid on one specified day outbound, and one specified day inbound)
• Single fares should be reduced to be much closer to half the price of the equivalent 'named days only' return where possible (eg. a return could be 10% less than the cost of two singles).
• A discount for buying 'named days only' returns, and singles, in advance might be a good idea
• A return/single fare, restricted to booked-train-only, but available on the day of travel (perhaps even on the train, especially in areas where they are no ticket offices) costing somewhere between the current 'Advance' and a flexible ticket might be useful. Basicly, there is a lack of cheap options that can be purchased on the day if you are willing to restrict yourself to certain trains.
  

The best way of implementing some of the above ideas might be to have the different ticket types, with a discount for buying in advance on any ticket except fully-flexible ones.

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Ticket types could be:

• AnyTrain
• Off-Peak
• Tethered (nice one grahame)

The first two would be available in:

• Single
• Flexi-Return (return travel any day within one month)
• Day Return
• Standard Return (outward travel on specified day, return travel on specified day)

The service a Tethered ticket is valid on should be printed on the reverse of the ticket, so that a reservation can be optional (and save card by not printing a 'reservation' when the service does not offer reservations). Tethered tickets could also be available as a return (basiclly two Tethered singles, but costing marginly less than buying two Tethered singles).

There is much more work to be done including how ticket collection can be made easier, and making sure passengers are able to print off their tickets at home, or use their mobile phones, just like they can when they fly. If other travel industries can do it and make it work, so should the rail industry.

Does this mean we can get rid of ticket barriers and have extra revenue protection staff on trains instead? I expect a print-at-home ticket on floppy paper is unlikely to work in a ticket gate machine like the stiff card tickets issued by guards, ticket offices and ticket machines do.

[Brucey]

I expect a print-at-home ticket on floppy paper is unlikely to work in a ticket gate machine like the stiff card tickets issued by guards, ticket offices and ticket machines do.

EC installed barcode scanners onto their ticket gates at a number of stations (e.g. Leeds and Grantham).

[Btline]

Barcode scanners rarely work, and print quality is dubious. Print at home tickets should be axed IMO^▸ (in my opinion) as I'm sure they are easier to forge.

Why not just have single tickets? (priced at half the current return)
These tickets are valid on one day only. If ticket buying was simple and quick, savvy commuters could buy the tickets on their phones to avoid queuing.

There would be little point to period return tickets if singles were half the price. Obviously you could buy a return, but you specify thr day and it is double the price of a single. If you don't know when you're coming back, just get a single.

Let's just keep it simple!

[JayMac]

Barcode scanners rarely work, and print quality is dubious. Print at home tickets should be axed IMO^▸ (in my opinion) as I'm sure they are easier to forge.

You're sure are you? Have you seen one? They have numerous security features on them. And that's in addition to always being printed with the name of the purchaser and requiring ID to be shown, usually the debit/credit card used to make the transaction.

Finally, they don't have barcodes on them. They use QR^▸ (QR Code - Quick Response code) codes.

[grahame]

Perhaps 100 miles?

That would mean that it's OK for Chippenham commuters to fork out for a standard ticket to London, whereas their friends just down the road in Bath Spa get all the benefits of cheap travel any time they want in the peaks?

No - the knowledgable Chippenhamite would buy a ticket to London FIELDS, over 100 miles, at 61.50, rather than to London at 73.00 ... 

The idea of always having cheap tickets available on all trains on a particular journey, at any length of journey, is flawed and would replace one system that's in a degree of disrepute with another that would have a degree of disrepute.  What would the point be in offering a standard fare if no-one ever bought it (except perhaps people who were incorrectly ticketed and encountered a member of staff)

[IndustryInsider]

...is flawed and would replace one system that's in a degree of disrepute with another that would have a degree of disrepute. 

Indeed, and that was my point at questioning Btline's simple fare structure.  It simply wouldn't be workable.  The whole fares system is in a mess, but cleaning it up would take a hell of a lot more work to make it workable than having a nationwide system based on distance as he suggested, and whatever is done there will still be anomalies/discrepancies leading to unfair fares.  However, something has to be done!

I would suggest the only way forward is to do a trial or series of trials on a small area of a small franchise to see what might work.  The franchise would be let on a tightly controlled basis by the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and revenue for the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) would need to be guaranteed (so the TOC wouldn't potentially lose out on a whole heap of revenue, or conversely make loads more money).  It would almost be taking one step back to make two steps forward, but I can't see any system being introduced nationwide without the TOC's and DfT being comfortable with what the implications might be.

[inspector_blakey]

Barcode scanners rarely work, and print quality is dubious. Print at home tickets should be axed IMO^▸ (in my opinion) as I'm sure they are easier to forge.

Oh dear. Someone really ought to tell the airline industry where they're in near-universal use for scanning boarding passes, regardless of whether they are "print at home" or airport issued. Most airline boarding passes don't even have a magnetic stripe on the back anymore, and I have never seen a boarding pass not scan properly, even when the print quality has sometimes looked a bit iffy.

[JayMac]

I'd like to see the current system fixed of its bugs and anomalies as a first stage toward any wholesale changes. Although for purely selfish reasons I'm generally happy with the prices I pay for my journeys. That's because I have the time and inclination to find the best fare, be that a through ticket, split ticket, or using the Conditions of Carriage and Routeing Guide.

One anomaly I noticed today. 0830 Bristol TM^‡(resolve) - London Paddington on Weds 13th June:

Advance Purchase, booked train only, no refunds - ^48.50
Off Peak Single, any train after 0830, break of journey, ending short, differing routes all allowed. Partially refundable - ^39.00

So that's an extra ^9.50 for less flexibility. 



To my mind that Advance Purchase ticket should not even be on offer lest someone accidentally purchase it. But then I'm sure, rather than fix the anomaly, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are happy to trouser the extra ^9.50 should a customer purchase the dearer less flexible ticket.

[eightf48544]

Re home printed tickets. Both my DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) tickets came as attached .pdf file on the acknowledge email.

I printed them out on a Canon Ink Jetand  as someone posted they have one of squares of dots on them. They were read succesfully on 3 trains 2 Berlin Gorlitz 3 Wernigerode Berlin. Showed my card which was swiped in the same machine. Plus a time train stamp on ticket.

No problems but then DB don't have gates!

[Btline]

I used a bar code ticket once at a major station. The gate-line attendant ushered me through before I had chance to try it. He said "they never work".. "have so much trouble..." etc. Print at home will have varying quality. I am pretty sure that a wizz kid with a computer could easily knock up a genuine looking forged ticket!

My fares suggestion was only that. I understand that there will exceptions.

My distance scenario was to prevent the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) situation where commuter are fleeced for hundreds on long distance services (e.g. from Devon to Cheshire).

I have a CT timetable from 2004(?) which says that Savers had no time restrictions and they were generally valid on routes longer than 50(?) miles. That's what I based it on.

If our longer distance trains were 8/9/10 car instead of 4/3/2 car (after IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)?), there would be less of a problem of longer distance passengers taking up commuter space, which is why I believe restrictions have gradually crept in as passenger numbers grew.

[Brucey]

I am pretty sure that a wizz kid with a computer could easily knock up a genuine looking forged ticket!

But the idea is that the barcode is checked against a database.  If the quality is poor, then the code should be manually entered and checked.

I've seen 2D barcodes that are very low quality which scan perfectly well on a mobile phone camera.  With a high resolution, laser based barcode scanner, there should be even less problem reading them.  Airlines manage without any problems.

[JayMac]

I am pretty sure that a wizz kid with a computer could easily knock up a genuine looking forged ticket!

Which is equally true for common stock.

There are actually more security features on print@home tickets than on your bog standard orange ticket. There's the QR^▸ (QR Code - Quick Response code) code, Customer Reference Number, an image designed to be difficult to scan/photocopy, Customer's Name and the last four digits of the credit/debit card used to make the purchase.

[Brucey]

Even a standard Megatrain ticket is actually very secure.  There is nothing to print, just a reference number to note (whether on a phone screen or paper).

The reference is in this format: 10-1167-261111-MT1b-1404-HAV-WAT
As you've probably guessed, this is a real reference number for the 1404 service from Havant to Waterloo on 26/11/11.

The barrier staff get a printout of reference numbers, which they mark off as presented.  Same on board the train with the guard.

Each reference number can only be used once as it is always marked off the list.  There are check digits in the reference number, so you can't even guess a reference unless you know the algorithm.

The advantage of a barcode (whether 2D or 1D) is that they can be checked much more quickly, i.e. the code doesn't need to be entered or crossed off.

[Btline]

When I used a print at home ticket, it was never scanned.

The guard (normally bewildered by such a ticket in my experience) just looks at it, checks it matches the ID/credit card and moves on. If there are problems at barriers you just get ushered through,

So as I said, a whizz kid could easily knock one up! Much easier than an orange ticket.

[JayMac]

So, because this mythical whizz-kid can possibly forge a print@home train ticket they should be got rid of?

Let's get rid of common stock, that can be forged. Let's do away with smart cards, they can be circumvented.

Then there's cash, that can be forged. Or what about debit/credit cards, they can be cloned.

Restricting choice because of the actions of a very very small minority is not the answer. They'll likely get caught anyway.

And these guards? Bewildered by your ticket yet know to check it matched the ID. Which is what should be done.

print@home offers convenience and should be more widely available, not done away with just because it may be forged (like any other ticket medium) or may not open a barrier automatically. Wider adoption will see wider installation of barriers able to read the printed QR^▸ (QR Code - Quick Response code) code.