Class 180s return to the Cotswolds

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

An additional HST^▸ (High Speed Train) trip is planned for the new timetable, as a result of the number of 180 diagrams reducing to three per day with one of the five set being transferred to Grand Central.

Though interestingly the 17:18 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) and return is still booked a 180 meaning there are still 4 diagrams in the evening, so either all five 180s are being kept (so why the HST on the 11:20?), or they're asking for 100% availability in the evening peak (asking for trouble!).

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

Today's Railways Magazine claims that as from Monday the 1718 Padd - Oxford and return will be a Turbo (well, I hope more than 1 Turbo, it needs 5-6 coaches) and not a 180. This would fit in with the other changes.

[bobm]

The "changes" poster at stations also confirms the 17:18 will no longer be a 180.

[Adelante_CCT]

Yes, being run by a turbo(s) from now on, leaving the 4th 180 as a spare, or of course for its inevitable use as a replacement for the 17:49 as is quite often the case.

[IndustryInsider]

That's interesting as I thought so too, but the drivers diagrams for next week clearly show it as booked for a 180.  A mistake perhaps?

[TaplowGreen]

Why is a train being given to another TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) when we are constantly being told that all GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) stock is bring fully utilised and there is none spare to strengthen already hugely overcrowded services?

[IndustryInsider]

Agreements that were signed before the electrification delays.  Grand Central want to run an additional train to Sunderland I think, and retire their three HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets.  I think the remainder of 180s will be leaving GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) by the end of next year.  Fortunately the new arrivals from Hitachi should be in operation by then.

[Timmer]

Agreements that were signed before the electrification delays.  Grand Central want to run an additional train to Sunderland I think, and retire their three HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets.  I think the remainder of 180s will be leaving GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) by the end of next year.  Fortunately the new arrivals from Hitachi should be in operation by then.

A straight swap would be good. A five coach HST would have more capacity than than a class 180? Feel for Grand Central users losing their HSTs.

[ChrisB]

I'm hoping XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) might pick up the odd GST being released. They need them more than GC^» (Great Central Railway - link to heritage line) in terms of crowding. And GC sVe in maintenance costs by having just one type of train, which pf course, is why they're doing this

[TaplowGreen]

Agreements that were signed before the electrification delays.  Grand Central want to run an additional train to Sunderland I think, and retire their three HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets.  I think the remainder of 180s will be leaving GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) by the end of next year.  Fortunately the new arrivals from Hitachi should be in operation by then.

You'll have to forgive me and please don't take this personally but a "should" forecast from the railways doesn't fill me with confidence.

I wonder which other services will suffer in order to free up a Turbo to run this service instead - we get enough cancellations in recent times due to "more trains than usual needing maintenance" so this does not augur well, aligned with the usual message that all resources are being fully utilised - inevitably something will have to give.

More poor planning. Any agreement made on the basis of electrification being delivered on time should have contained the appropriate caveats to allow for delays - particularly on the railways where delays are pretty much BAU.

[IndustryInsider]

It's a rather complicated situation regarding the Class 180s.  To summarise what happened as I recall:

• GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) decided to get rid of them originally in 2008/9 and replace them with more HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets increasing capacity and reliability.
• There was also fairly advanced talk about replacing the Cotswold Line services with 4-car diesel Turbostar trains numbering some 40 vehicles.
• In 2009 electrification was announced to Bristol, Newbury and Oxford by then end of 2016 and to Swansea by 2017.  That meant that those Turbostar train were not needed, but we know what's subsequently happened to those dates!
• In 2010 East Coast, who had leased these 5 Class 180s up until 2017, decided not to pursue a regular, through, Kings Cross to Lincoln service which would have used them.
• Growth on GWR was such that additional carriages were needed to fill in between the planned arrival date of those diesel carriages (mooted for 2013) and electrification.
• The opportunity to sub-lease the 5-Class 180s (and also take on the two Class 150s) was jumped on by which time electrification should have been long since completed.
  

The trouble with that sub-lease, is that come the end of the term it was up to the ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about) as to what to do with them after.  GWR could have said they'd pay to keep them a little longer if needed, but the ROSCO understandably wanted a proper long term lease which Grand Central was able to commit to.  It might be possible to keep them a few months longer than originally planned, but they will be going in time that Grand Central can use them without having to modify their HST's, so it won't be much longer - and you can bet other parties will want to be rewarded handsomely.

There will be enough electric trains in operation to release one (admittedly 2-car) Turbo in early January from the Greenford route, so hopefully any pain will be very short lived.  The fact the 17:18 is down as a Class 180 on the drivers diagram next week makes me wonder whether that is being kept short term until that Turbo becomes available?

[Busboy W1]

In answer to Taplow Greens question. It should be the case that the 387s pick up some of the Turbo work in the Thames Valley hence the 1718 reverting to Turbo operation. As Industry Insider has stated quite clearly the original plan set out by the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) and NR^» (Network Rail - home page) along with the relevant TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) hasn't gone exactly to plan.

[TaplowGreen]

Sounds like a massive exercise in robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[Timmer]

Sounds like a massive exercise in robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Sums up rail privatization nicely, like plugging holes in a dam.

[IndustryInsider]

Today's Railways Magazine claims that as from Monday the 1718 Padd - Oxford and return will be a Turbo (well, I hope more than 1 Turbo, it needs 5-6 coaches) and not a 180. This would fit in with the other changes.

Yes, being run by a turbo(s) from now on, leaving the 4th 180 as a spare, or of course for its inevitable use as a replacement for the 17:49 as is quite often the case.

It was a Class 180 today (I forgot to check yesterday!), so it looks like there's been a temporary reprieve?