Driver Advisory System (DAS) now in use

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

I travelled Bristol to Plymouth with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) the other day. The Volo moving map was stuck permanently just outside Reading. One hopes the accuracy of this Driver Advisory System is a little more robust.

There can also be a case of 'too much information' sometimes. There are well documented accounts of airline pilots getting into to serious trouble because they relied too heavily on the technology and not their common sense.

[BerkshireBugsy]

The Volo screens only show the moving map for about a minute or so before going back to default so you'd need to be pretty keen to follow progress that way. 

Not anymore! A message pops up and asks 'Is the screen still in use' You just tap the screen to remove this and the map remains.

For some reason I notice the other day what I assume is the GPS receiver on the top of coach D. Look like is has been borrowed from the roof of a well known German car!

[TonyK]

Seems useful, especially in an age when cheap fuel isn't even available to public transport. After passing a certain price per litre of fuel, I realised when driving that coasting to a junction is cheaper than hurtling to it in top, then braking. I'm guessing a train driver doesn't always have the visual cues to help judge the best economy / speed balance, and this looks a good aide. It's not just fuel either - my brake pads on my car are now into their third year, whereas a colleague with a similar car has changed his twice in the same period.

I suppose the optimum economy will only ever come with a fully traffic-controlled railway system, where a driver never meets a red light, because the path has been so precisely calculated to fit in with other trains. Maybe in a couple of hundreds years....

[Btline]

So if a train is 5 minutes late, it will still tell the driver to coast?

How often will the speed update? Do we want drivers constantly looking at the screen and not at the rails?

[The SprinterMeister]

There can also be a case of 'too much information' sometimes. There are well documented accounts of airline pilots getting into to serious trouble because they relied too heavily on the technology and not their common sense.

This being one of the issues raised by the incident with the wheel falling off the Meridian on the MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) recently.

http://www.raib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/120130_R012012_East_Langton.pdf

Too much garbage being displayed on the TMS screen, driver attempted to interrogate screen and understand / make sense of what was going on rather than actually stopping the train promptly.

[The SprinterMeister]

So if a train is 5 minutes late, it will still tell the driver to coast?

How often will the speed update? Do we want drivers constantly looking at the screen and not at the rails?

The system is an aid and not a mandatory driving requirement. There is therefore no expectation that drivers will gawp at the DAS^▸ (Driver Advisory System) screen instead of looking where they are going or at the other instruments in the cab. Having driven a few power cars with DAS on I have found that the degree of coasting advised is in respect of the degree of lateness and the time allowed to the next intermediate point or station.   

[Mookiemoo]

I have it from a reliable source that its not great and doesn't take into account trying to make it to the destination on time

Although it is better than the 180s which apparently feel the need to inform the driver if, for example, the toilets are out of order!

[inspector_blakey]

There can also be a case of 'too much information' sometimes. There are well documented accounts of airline pilots getting into to serious trouble because they relied too heavily on the technology and not their common sense.

There are equally well documented accounts of disorientated aircrew relying on what they thought was their "common sense" instead of reading their instruments, and flying plane into the ground 

[The SprinterMeister]

I have it from a reliable source that its not great and doesn't take into account trying to make it to the destination on time

That depends of course how slavishly you follow the instructions displayed on the DAS^▸ (Driver Advisory System) screen. 

Its rather like satnav in a car, it requires a degree of interpretation. Rather than following to the letter which tends to end up with HGV's stuck on narrow roads or old dears turning right onto railway lines at level crossings....

[The SprinterMeister]

There can also be a case of 'too much information' sometimes. There are well documented accounts of airline pilots getting into to serious trouble because they relied too heavily on the technology and not their common sense.

There are equally well documented accounts of disorientated aircrew relying on what they thought was their "common sense" instead of reading their instruments, and flying plane into the ground 

The incident with the Jumbo Jet getting into mega problems in high cloud years ago being a case in point. Pilot became disorientated to the point where he believed the 'artificial horizon' instrument had failed and only managed to regain control when the plane had fallen several thousand feet to the point where he could see the sea, reorientate himself and effect a recovery.


There is however a point where too much information and gadgetry in a driving cab or cockpit can be counterproductive though.

[The SprinterMeister]

The Volo screens only show the moving map for about a minute or so before going back to default so you'd need to be pretty keen to follow progress that way. 

Not anymore! A message pops up and asks 'Is the screen still in use' You just tap the screen to remove this and the map remains.

They must have changed that since I last travelled any distance in a Volowagon then....

[Btline]

But we should be identifying slack and tightening the schedules not driving slower! This will just make early running a thing of the past, and the slack will never be axed.

This may also increase delays. Let's say there are a couple of bikes and a passenger that requires assistance at X station. Instead of driving at 125mph and arriving a few minutes early, the train will only turn up on time.

Nothing wrong with getting to stations early IMO^▸ (in my opinion)!

[Southern Stag]

Except for the benefits already mentioned when aiming to arrive on time, namely reduced fuel consumption which is cheaper and better for the environment.

[The SprinterMeister]

Nothing wrong with getting to stations early IMO^▸ (in my opinion)!

Yes but at certain stations on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) getting into stations early is impossible. If you get a green on the signal on the down main at Kennet Bridge Goods Loop / Oracle indicating route clear into platform 7 at Reading its either a Sunday, your running mega late or theres a major signal fault. Its the same as trying run early towards West Drayton on the up main, you know your going to get two yellows on UM13B (while the HEx goes first) so why bother.

With DAS^▸ (Driver Advisory System), you can now let the train run from somewhere round Maidenhead and still get into Reading on time rather than ranting the thing along at 125mph and then dribbling in on yellows from Sonning, thus saving fuel and brake pad wear.

[IndustryInsider]

I don't think it does make allowances for gradients as such and as far as Devon and Cornwall is concerned I suspect it still needs a bit of fine tuning. Shutting off at Dauntsey old station going towards Swindon isn't to my mind sound advice.

I doesn't seem to be perfect on the gradient front, but it definitely does take gradients into account, at least that what I was told, and in my own (fairly limited) experience it tells you when to coast (virtually to the second) at the summit of hills near Culham and Chipping Campden.

But we should be identifying slack and tightening the schedules not driving slower! This will just make early running a thing of the past, and the slack will never be axed.

This may also increase delays. Let's say there are a couple of bikes and a passenger that requires assistance at X station. Instead of driving at 125mph and arriving a few minutes early, the train will only turn up on time.

Valid points, though the data can be interpreted and you can see how much coasting is going on and still work out where the slack still is of course.  And to answer earlier questions the system has no interface with the signalling system so there is no allowance for signals and proximity of other trains.