A major TVM irregularity that nearly cost me over ^40!!

[whole diary]

[thetrout]

I am really angry about this! An FGW^▸ (First Great Western) TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) very nearly charged me over ^40 more than it should have done!!

I'm currently waiting for the 01:36 TAU^» (Taunton - next trains) - PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) Sleeper service. I didn't buy my ticket beforehand as I was going to do my usual Waterloo run for which I have the return portion for. But I got held up by a failed fibre cable which I had to replace at very short notice (long story)

Anyway I spoke with a member of staff who very kindly opened the waiting room and ticket office so I could get my ticket from the TVM. When I selected PAD as the destination and entered my railcard, it threw up ONLY the Anytime Single - which was  ^69.30 ish. I thought, that's not a Peak Train, The Peak doesn't start until at least after 02:00. No way can it be that much! Infact, I knew it wasn't that much as I've used Super Off Peak Tickets on the sleeper before from this very station!!

I wanted to be doubly sure before boarding so I checked the price on the FGW App. Even selecting a weekday next week, the app said the train didn't exist... Marvellous! So I used the Mobile Website and sure enough for travel today - a Super Off Peak Single at ^25.75 was showing as valid on that train! The problem I now have is there is 30 minutes until the arrival of the Sleeper so I can't do a book and collect from said TVM even though I was stood right next to the bloody thing!!

I am going to complain about this to FGW in a rather firmly worded letter. The reason is that I knew that the TVM couldn't possibly be correct. But Joe Bloggs knowing nothing about the different tickets would have seen that as the only ticket and bought it!

I'd be interested to know how many Anytime Tickets have been sold for this train.............

[paul7575]

I am going to complain about this to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) in a rather firmly worded letter. The reason is that I knew that the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) couldn't possibly be correct. But Joe Bloggs knowing nothing about the different tickets would have seen that as the only ticket and bought it!

I'd be interested to know how many Anytime Tickets have been sold for this train.............

The 'after midnight' problem.  Although at 0130 tickets bought yesterday are still valid, there seems to be a grey area about selling tickets for today between midnight and 0430. 

How does the TVM decide if you are wanting a ticket for today's morning peak and you are there a bit early, or you want to travel before 0429 on a ticket dated yesterday?

I don't know the answer, but I'm sure it is all bound up in that 'four and a half hour overlap' between railway days?

Paul

[Super Guard]

I wanted to be doubly sure before boarding so I checked the price on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) App. Even selecting a weekday next week, the app said the train didn't exist... Marvellous!

Did you choose Monday morning, as the sleepers do not call at Taunton, due to possible engineering diversions via the Southern route?

[thetrout]

I tried to buy the ticket at 00:45 for travel on the 01:36 the same morning, which the Sleeper Guard did confirm was a Super Off Peak Train. They mentioned if I was making the same journey again to buy on board.

I can see your point regarding the Railway Days Paul - which I did mention to the Guard and that I thought the morning peak started at 02:00?? But he wasn't sure if it was 02:00 or 04:30 as you suggested.

Super Guard - I tried a Friday morning (27th April) to try and replicate the same day I case there were restrictions for Friday Only... That didn't work so I tries a Wednesday which also failed. In the end I used the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Mobile Website through Safari

Ta :-)

[paul7575]

I can see your point regarding the Railway Days Paul - which I did mention to the Guard and that I thought the morning peak started at 02:00?? But he wasn't sure if it was 02:00 or 04:30 as you suggested.

0429 was a fairly recent change, (possibly Dec 2011) and was made at the same time as they tweaked some of the T&Cs regarding overnight breaks of journey etc.  I think one of the reasons was that it brought NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and TfL^» (Transport for London - about) into line.  Of course no time is ideal for NR, as they run some 24 hour services as well as the sleepers.

Current 'Anytime Day' T&C here for instance:  http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/anytime_day_conditions.html

I don't think the start of the morning peak is (publicly) defined on National Rail - I'd assume it is 0000 on the current day, ie the railway day is effectively 28hr 29m long.

Although Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) PAYG^▸ (Pay as you go) does charge offpeak individual fares before the morning peak I don't think there is such a thing on National Rail paper tickets.

Paul

[Tim]

How does the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) decide if you are wanting a ticket for today's morning peak and you are there a bit early, or you want to travel before 0429 on a ticket dated yesterday?

If the machine can't decide it should err on the side of generosity to the customer. 

[paul7575]

That's not very generous to the passenger though, if it means that after 0429 he is travelling on an invalid fare? 

Sleepers must by default have to be a specific exclusion to the normal rules for single validity anyway.

Paul

[Tim]

That's not very generous to the passenger though, if it means that after 0429 he is travelling on an invalid fare? 

Well if I was in charge an honest mistake like that would also be treated generously.

It is all very well saying that it is the customer's responsibility to have the correct fare and that they deserve to get the book thown at them if they get it wrong, but there is a lop-sidedness to this "tough stance".  If we are going to allow customers to be fined and recieve penalties for buying the wrong ticket then the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) must also be fined and penalised for selling the wrong ticket. 

[ellendune]

When I bought a ticket from a TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) at Koln Hbhf a couple of years ago, it asked me where I wanted to go, gave me an option of the trains (with fares) just like the websites do, then aslked me to choose.  Simples!

[inspector_blakey]

A good start, and certainly better than what most UK^▸ (United Kingdom) TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) offer, but still doesn't help you with the informaiton you need if you want to travel on a different train or have an open return ticket. And it's even worse if it issued a "train-specific" ticket...

[thetrout]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) seem to be a little reluctant to reply on this one... I have sent 2 e-mails regarding this - of which I have had delivery receipts, so no question that the messages hit the dreaded Spam Boxes!

I also tweeted Jo (not our Jo) at FGW and received a rather cold shoulder response - if no response at all counts...

Wouldn't it just be easier if buying tickets on Smart Phones was possible as I could have had a ticket before even getting on the train. But that brings me back to my other point... That bluddy train does not appear in the FGW iPhone App!

[Southern Stag]

Presuming you contacted FGW^▸ (First Great Western) on the 20th April I'd say they probably haven't ignored you, just haven't replied yet. Normally TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s seem to take about 3 weeks or so to email back.