Devon Metro (railway network around Exeter) - merged posts, ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[SandTEngineer]

Edit to add: I think in a past life I was once asked to look at capacity on the Exmouth branch and came up with the idea of having two parallel single lines betwen Topsham and Exmouth and removing (saving) a set of points at Topsham in turn.  Cheaper first cost than a new crossing loop, and less long term ongoing maintenance and renewal liability and hence cost.  Now then, what happened to that idea.....

How interesting. Did it really work out cheaper? I appreciate that the current Exe Estuary trail is mostly built (I think) on what was railway land acquired for a possible second track, but I'm thinking of having to add another track over the River Clyst bridge between Topsham and Exton, as well as several underbridges where the railway crosses lanes and streams.

Well I did say in a past life!  Can't remember now what the state of the bridges were at that time.  Possibly talking of at least 40 years ago

[lympstone_commuter]

Well I did say in a past life!  Can't remember now what the state of the bridges were at that time.  Possibly talking of at least 40 years ago
[/quote]

Ha ha - fair enough, S&TE! Interesting that increasing capacity for the Exmouth branch was on anyone's radar ~40 years ago. My memory (which goes back about that far) is of first generation DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) grinding up and down the branch much less full than today and little (or no?) Sunday service.

Until the 1960s (AIUI^▸ (as I understand it)) the branch was double from Exmouth Junction to Topsham and then single from Topsham to Exmouth (with a goods loop at Lympstone [Village]) although there was clearly enough land in railway ownership to double-track Topsham to Exmouth (never implemented) at the cost of widening some underbridges. Since then, Exmouth Junction to Topsham has been singled (with the new platforms at Digby and Newcourt taking up half of the old double track formation), and most of the line from Topsham to Exmouth now has the Exe Estuary trail alongside it on the previously "spare" land.

Consequently options for increasing trains-per-hour are limited, and would presumably need a passing loop at Lympstone Village and a passing loop (or even full redoubling) between Digby and Exmouth Junction. There is room for a second track on the viaduct at Lympstone Village station but squeezing in a second platform might be the (expensive) challenge.

That's how I see it, anyway. What do others think?

 

[SandTEngineer]

Consequently options for increasing trains-per-hour are limited, and would presumably need a passing loop at Lympstone Village and a passing loop (or even full redoubling) between Digby and Exmouth Junction. There is room for a second track on the viaduct at Lympstone Village station but squeezing in a second platform might be the (expensive) challenge.

That's how I see it, anyway. What do others think?

Sounds a good proposal that would work, but for timetable robustness I would go with your double track section idea.  However, such a sensible proposal would, of course, get entirely bogged down in the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) GRIP^▸ (Guide to Railway Investment Projects - Network Rail's process for project management of schemes through development and implementation) process and never see the light of day

[TonyK]

I am new so bear with me. I have looked at the pocket timetables for 2019 which do not seem to be any different to now. Can someone please tell me what has happened to the proposed Devon Metro (and new services to Cornwall) as I understood they would still come in in January even though the 802's would not use an accelerated timetable until May..

Welcome from me, also! I watch the Devon Metro news more carefully since I moved to within 3 miles of Tiverton Parkway. From the answers already given, we can see that any change to a railway is always a frustrating slow matter, and like the wings of the butterfly starting a hurricane, the smallest thing can cause major headaches elsewhere. The good news is that the general direction seems to be forward,even with all the snags along the way.

[PhilWakely]

Consequently options for increasing trains-per-hour are limited, and would presumably need a passing loop at Lympstone Village and a passing loop (or even full redoubling) between Digby and Exmouth Junction. There is room for a second track on the viaduct at Lympstone Village station but squeezing in a second platform might be the (expensive) challenge.

That's how I see it, anyway. What do others think?

Sounds a good proposal that would work, but for timetable robustness I would go with your double track section idea.  However, such a sensible proposal would, of course, get entirely bogged down in the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) GRIP^▸ (Guide to Railway Investment Projects - Network Rail's process for project management of schemes through development and implementation) process and never see the light of day

Is there any mileage in persuading Exeter Chiefs to part-fund a loop/turn-back between Digby and Sowton and Newcourt?

[REVUpminster]

[imghttp://Exeter Train depot february 2018 by Robert, on Flickr][/img]

Image of extended Exeter Depot that is under construction.
I thought I would try an image relevant to the Devon Metro. Passed through Exeter yesterday and they are still levelling the site. Image is looking from the NW. Level crossing to left out of image.

Exeter new depot by Robert, on Flickr

Another image from SE

[TonyK]

Is there any mileage in persuading Exeter Chiefs to part-fund a loop/turn-back between Digby and Sowton and Newcourt?

The idea has been kicked into touch.

[JayMac]

They could at least try. Surely not too big a job to tackle.

[REVUpminster]

The proposed Riviera stadium and music events centre at Nightingale Park (ex refuse tip) is up for planning permission soon. This is within 200yds of the proposed Kingskerswell  Station (I would call it Riviera Way (Torquay)) and the developers said they would make a contribution.

This might make it happen yet the cost seem to be spiralling out of control for two platforms and some ramps just as Marsh Barton's cost have.

[lympstone_commuter]

Is there any mileage in persuading Exeter Chiefs to part-fund a loop/turn-back between Digby and Sowton and Newcourt?

I've been thinking about this idea as I trundle past twice a day.....

I think the problem with having the turn-back / loop *between Digby & Sowton and Newcourt* is that it doesn't help to solve the capacity constraint on the single line between Topsham and Exmouth Junction. The problem with having the loop _at_ Digby is that there is no room - the platform takes up the space of the lifted 2nd track. The problem with having the loop _south_ of Digby is that it is too close to the existing loop at Topsham and so doesn't help with capacity.

The current service is 2 trains per hour (tph) in each direction on the single line. This makes full use of the exisiting capacity because it takes trains ~ 13 minutes to go from Topsham to Exmouth Junction (and it will take slightly longer if the proposed station at Monkerton between Digby and Polsloe Bridge gets built).

The only way to run more trains on this section is to have a loop, but to maintain regular services it must, by symmetry, be somewhere that is  ~7 minutes north of Topsham. so the new loop really has to be north of Digby, between Digby and the proposed station site at Monkerton. Of course it would be even better for timetable resilience to re-double all the way to Exmouth Junction, but this would cost more, not least because Polsloe Bridge and Monkerton would then need two platforms rather than one.

So perhaps a plan could be:

(1) Install a loop between Digby and the proposed station site at Monkerton, and upgrade the signalling so that the line in one of the platforms at Topsham is reversible. This allows a 4 tph service to Tophsam. Alternate southbound trains would continue to Exmouth as currently, while the others would turn-back at Topsham. Thus Digby could have 4tph to Exeter, 4tph to Topsham and 2tph to Exmouth. This requires upgraded signalling, some pointwork and a short section of new loop line.

(1a) (optional) beef up timetable resilience by re-doubling all the way from the new loop in (1) to Exmouth Junction. Amongst other things, this has the advantage of preventing southbound trains at Exmouth Junction from blocking the Up Waterloo line while they await access to the branch. It would, however, require station upgrades as well as new track and an upgrade of Exmouth Junction.

(2) (possibly later) Install a loop at Lympstone Village so that all 4 tph to Topsham from stage (1) can run to Exmouth.

[REVUpminster]

Newton Abbott to Paignton closed until 1600, 11 November for some track laying. Cannot be much.

[REVUpminster]

Exeter Depot 14 February 2019 by Robert, on Flickr

Very slow progress at Exeter Depot with only the steelwork for one shed.

158 in the background. Another seemed to be working the Newton Abbot -Paignton shuttle. I boarded one at 14.10

No news of the Devon Metro start unless an expert here knows different..

[southwest]

Split off from http://gwr.passenger.chat/22704 as the subject powered its way away from Turbos to Barnstaple / edit by Grahame

143's are still there but they are only run attached to a 150 with universal toilet on the Exmouth-Paignton line.  No good if you are in the 143 unit. We do get the odd 158 at Paignton.

Spoke to Kevin Foster MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post - a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London, depending on context) for Torbay (really Torquay and central Paignton) at Newton Abbot on the Monday he was returning to parliament and he knows his trains. Like me he has learnt to park at Newton Abbot and not wait for a connection to Paignton.

It seems a lot of people have learnt the hard way. Maybe GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) should look at running a shuttle Newton Abbot to Paignton train, separate from the normal Exmouth - Paignton.

[johnneyw]

143's are still there but they are only run attached to a 150 with universal toilet on the Exmouth-Paignton line.  No good if you are in the 143 unit. We do get the odd 158 at Paignton.

Spoke to Kevin Foster MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post - a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London, depending on context) for Torbay (really Torquay and central Paignton) at Newton Abbot on the Monday he was returning to parliament and he knows his trains. Like me he has learnt to park at Newton Abbot and not wait for a connection to Paignton.

Could something like that emerge with the nascent Devon Metro?

It seems a lot of people have learnt the hard way. Maybe GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) should look at running a shuttle Newton Abbot to Paignton train, separate from the normal Exmouth - Paignton.

Could something like that emerge with the nascent Devon Metro?

[southwest]

143's are still there but they are only run attached to a 150 with universal toilet on the Exmouth-Paignton line.  No good if you are in the 143 unit. We do get the odd 158 at Paignton.

Spoke to Kevin Foster MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post - a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London, depending on context) for Torbay (really Torquay and central Paignton) at Newton Abbot on the Monday he was returning to parliament and he knows his trains. Like me he has learnt to park at Newton Abbot and not wait for a connection to Paignton.

Could something like that emerge with the nascent Devon Metro?

It seems a lot of people have learnt the hard way. Maybe GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) should look at running a shuttle Newton Abbot to Paignton train, separate from the normal Exmouth - Paignton.

Could something like that emerge with the nascent Devon Metro?

2014-2016 there was the occasional shuttle worked the Cardiff-Paignton train that would otherwise have been sat idle. It's possible, surely better than making people wait forever for a train.