'Outrage over rail fare fine' for Exmouth to Exeter journey

[whole diary]

[TerminalJunkie]

So the ticket office at Exeter would have been closed when they walked past it. 

And at Exmouth:

Monday-Saturday 07:10-15:55
Sunday Closed
Monday-Friday 07:10-15:55 (sic)
Saturday 07:10-15:55
[...]
A ticket machine is available during the hours that the station is staffed and is located in the booking hall.

(my emphasis)

[TerminalJunkie]

Oh, I've looked further down, and there is a separate section on staffing level - although it's not very clear!

Staffing level
    Full-time
    Monday-Saturday 06:40-20:20
    Sunday 10:25-18:25
    Monday-Friday 05:30-22:45
    Saturday 06:45-22:45

[inspector_blakey]

Staffing hours are, of course, not necessarily the same as booking office opening hours. Staffing hours for Exmouth from NRES^▸ (National Rail Enquiry Service) (I know, your guess is as good as mine, but it would appear the staffing hours are longer than the booking office hours):

Full-time
Monday-Saturday 06:40-20:20
Sunday 10:25-18:25
Monday-Friday 05:30-22:45
Saturday 06:45-22:45

[inspector_blakey]

Oh, I've looked further down, and there is a separate section on staffing level - although it's not very clear!

Curses! Thought I had you there

[Bristolboy]

I must say such things are confusing. Not as bad as an incident which once happened to me. Kings Langley railway station has a main entrance with booking office, tvm etc and a back entrance onto platform 4 which comes from the car park. I often come from the car park direction (this is where my office is) and then walk through the tunnel under the platforms to buy a ticket before boarding the train to London. on one occasion I was walking through the tunnel under the platform towards the ticket machine and came across a group of people inspecting tickets of commuters getting off the train. It took a long time of arguing (including me getting out business card with company address and phone showing map of my office in relation to the station) before I was allowed to buy a ticket. As I say, I know its not fgw but we have to be careful before slapping penalty fares on people who have made a genuine mistake.

However, back to original article. Such inspections and fines protect the revenue (i don't expect these people will travel without a ticket again) and by reporting on this the media have probably encouraged more people to ensure they have a ticket. It is similar to what London midland run with a poster at stations showing a list of people caught for fare evasion and their punishment.

As for no time to sell tickets on the train, this is partly caused by passengers not buying prior to boarding the train (it seems a guard can often check a carriage full of tickets in the time it takes to sell one).

[TonyK]

I have now calmed down to the point where I realise I didn't have the information I needed to make a judgment. If there are signs telling everyone they must get a ticket before boarding then I have no right to sympathy. Having once stood up to an irate passenger shouting at a conductor that he was entitled to travel first, pay later, and what was he going to do because he couldn't throw him off, I hope my feelings for revenue protection are not misunderstood*. I am also for the genuinely hard-done-by like the man who finds his car clamped having not seen a distant warning sign the size of a postcard, and hope FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have the means to have this looked at by someone impartial. One thing is sure; the publicity will mean everyone knows now.

A parallel situation, not on railways, happened recently in Bristol. A new bus lane had been created on the Bath Road with surveillance cameras and signs, but not enforced, probably because of ongoing road works. On a certain date, without any further warning, the cameras were switched on and a lot of penalty notices sent out. There was one part of the lane where it was possible to join without passing a warning sign. There was similar uproar in the press. That didn't make it right to drive in the bus lane, but Bristol City Council still decided that it was proper to put up more temporary notices, cancel the fines, and, eventually, refund those that had been paid. It was heavily reported in the local paper, and you now drive in that bus lane at your peril.
 
(* I told him the conductor might not be able to physically throw him out of the train, but I didn't work for the railway, had my dinner waiting, and would do so if he didn't get off and let us leave the station. Seems everyone else had the same idea, but didn't want to say so.)

[Chris from Nailsea]

The signs displayed at penalty fare stations are very clear.  This is a picture from Nailsea & Backwell, for example:

[chrisoates]

Staffing hours are, of course, not necessarily the same as booking office opening hours. Staffing hours for Exmouth from NRES^▸ (National Rail Enquiry Service) (I know, your guess is as good as mine, but it would appear the staffing hours are longer than the booking office hours):

Full-time
Monday-Saturday 06:40-20:20
Sunday 10:25-18:25
Monday-Friday 05:30-22:45
Saturday 06:45-22:45

I use Exmouth quite a lot and there are no staff there after the booking office closes.
The booking office closes in the same manner as St Erth and Dawlish - the whole building gets locked up and you have to walk around the building to get to the platform.

When the building is closed you have to walk through the adjacent bus station or the car park and enter the platform by a gate which is unlocked - they should have done what they did at Topsham - put the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) in the passenger shelter.

First time I used the station I thought the trains had been cancelled as there appeared to be no way to get onto the platform.

[paul7575]

The signs displayed at penalty fare stations are very clear. 

...and I'd add that those notices are effectively a nationally agreed standard format, at least in my experience.  Basically all that ever changes is the list of relevant TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) logos, DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), TfL^» (Transport for London - about) etc along the bottom of the sheet.   The signs and notices that must be displayed at all entrances are supposedly checked by DfT as part of the procedure for setting up a PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) area.

Paul

[vacman]

A few things, as for saying that you got on at Topsham, not really a good idea as that also is a PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) station, all of the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine)'s in Devon still accept both cash and cards unlike in other areas, so no excuses there, if they weren't fare dodging then when did they propose to pay their fare? Because Exeter Central Gates are open after 1745 on saturdays under normal circumstances!
The PF scheme has been in place for well over 2 years in the area and there are at least 3 huge PF signs at Exmouth! best way to avoid a PF is to buy before you board!

[vacman]

Also, if I were cynical I would assume that most people think that railways are free on Friday and Saturday night's in Devon.

[ellendune]

I am told in Cardiff ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) even lock their TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) up in the building when they go home. So you have to buy the ticket on the train or at your destination (which may also be a station where the TVM has been locked up).  With 3 minutes between some stations fare evasion is widespread.  Howver, I do not know if they have a penalty fares scheme.

If you are going through Central are you expected to get off miss that train and get the next in order to buy a ticket there?

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

No you should arrive with plenty of time at your origin station to buy a ticket before you board if the ticket machine is not working you should go to the platform and then do one of two things , use the info button on the help point to inform fgw that the vending machine is not working they can check this and then put a message out to the guards and gatelines and you will then be able to purchase from onboard or at Exeter, the other option is.... And at exmouth this is easy as you arrived in time when the train arrives and the driver and guard switch ends you should approach the guard and inform them of the situation, if you arrive just as the doors are closing and jump on you are in the wrong if you do not have a ticket!

There is however the issue that you can not quickly get a ticket from the vending machines and if a lot of people are traveling some exceptions should be made however, if this was the case the guard could have been informed on the platform in his uniform next to the end set of doors at exmouth?

[thetrout]

Just a different outlook, maybe i've not read the article fully... But is it possible these passengers didn't know of the existence of the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine)??

[JayMac]

Ignorantia legis neminem excusat.