Trains declared as 'arrived' when they are nowhere in sight

[whole diary]

[rockchick]

Is this a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) issue specific to Reading station or does this happen all over the place?  It's kind of frustrating how the rush hour trains from Reading to Paddington appear to have 'arrived' yet there is still a wait of several minutes before the train actually pulls into the station.  If FGW are doing this to improve stats then I'd like to lodge a complaint!

[inspector_blakey]

Welcome to the forum.

Rest assured that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) aren't using this to massage statistics, and the customer information system displays aren't the things that are used to record delays for the purposes of measuring performance.

It's to do with the signalling system and how it detects trains on the approach to Reading; simply put, it's my understanding that trains occupy the track circuit that causes them to show as "Arrived" on the information scheme some time before they actually pull into the platform, that's all. A similar situation causes (or used to cause) up trains departing Bath Spa still to be shown on the monitors for some time after they have left the platform.

[paul7575]

I don't believe putting up 'arrived' on the display prematurely is that useful.

What I mean is that if the typical sequence of audio announcements works properly, such as
 
'the next train to arrive at platform N is the ...'
'the train approaching platform N is...'
'the train standing at platform N is...'

you should be able to get away without putting 'arrived' on the display at all?

Paul

[bobm]

I totally agree - and it worked at Reading for a fair few years before the new system was put in recently.

[johoare]

There is a similar thing at Paddington where the Turbos show as "preparing" when they are no where in site.. Preparing I think is really only relevant to the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) when that is exactly what is going on.. Cleaning, destination signs being put up, rubbish being removed etc..

For a turbo preparing just means they're bringing it to us I think 

[Deltic]

There are sometimes also issues with the automated station announcements beginning well before the train has stopped.  I noticed this at Bath Spa yesterday with a 158 arriving on the down platform.  I assume that there is a delay from the occupation of the track circuit to when the announcement is triggered but if the train is slow arriving it might kick in too soon.

[phile]

At Cardiff Central, the Ebbw services lay over in Platform 0 for nearly an hour.    However, right up until departure time the train is announced as approaching Platform 0.   An anomaly exists at least at midday time when the Screen shows first train as 12 05 to Manchester and the second as the 12 00 to Taunton which, of course, is put into Platform 2 first (not for Manchester passengrers to join of course !!!).   It would appear that as the first timetable time shewn is the arrival of the Manchester at 11 48 from West Wales this is the time picked up by the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) rather than 12 00 for a starter.   I won't dwell on this any longer as I am drifting off thread.

[Louis94]

There are sometimes also issues with the automated station announcements beginning well before the train has stopped.  I noticed this at Bath Spa yesterday with a 158 arriving on the down platform.  I assume that there is a delay from the occupation of the track circuit to when the announcement is triggered but if the train is slow arriving it might kick in too soon.

Yes this is a big problem at many stations with the old PA^▸ (Public Address) still, Should be sorted with the new PA, the timings for the old systems are really off now.

[Glovidge]

Is this a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) issue specific to Reading station or does this happen all over the place?  It's kind of frustrating how the rush hour trains from Reading to Paddington appear to have 'arrived' yet there is still a wait of several minutes before the train actually pulls into the station.  If FGW are doing this to improve stats then I'd like to lodge a complaint!

It really really does my head in when they've arrived according to the screen but they're nowwhere to be seen.

It is seemingly at every station in my experience (in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)) but I believe they're allowed to be 10 minutes late and they're still on time in the railway's twilight zone world of statistics and punctuality. For the customer it is the equivalent of being told to hang on the line when ringing a call centre! "Your call is really valued."

Still interesting to know that the real reason is due to signalling and the customer info service displays are not there for performance measures. One would think with it being one of the main information points for the "customer service experience" they would have some form of performance indicator.

[johoare]

My train home this evening from Paddington was being "prepared" according to the board for a good 10 minutes...which is the norm as it's an HST^▸ (High Speed Train).. However when I got on there was rubbish around so I'm not sure what "prepared" meant in this instance..

[IanL]

The new CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) at Oxford has a major glitch in its software, the 1732 Cotswold Line stopping train is advertised as being the next train on P2, this is announced as well as being on the displays. Then just as the train draws close to the end of the platform the display changes to 'this train is not for public use' followed by an announcement. The staff know about this and often make a manual announcement timed to block the automatic announcement. Then once the train has stopped and doors opened, most people in the know get on anyway but irregular travellers hold back, finally the screen and announcements confirm that it is the stopping train for Great malvern.

[IndustryInsider]

Same applies at Reading when empty stock arrives from the depot to form trains in the early morning.  The CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) recognises that a train with a headcode starting with a '3' or a '5' has stepped into the platform signal berth and (correctly in a sense) thinks it's not in public use.  Then when the signaller changes the headcode from the ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) to its next working the system corrects itself. 

Two ways round that problem; the signaller alters the headcode when it's at the berth outside the platform, or the software is modified so that it prevents specific headcodes from altering what the screens display.

[paul7575]

To be fair it isn't just a problem at Oxford, it happens by default nearly everywhere when trains enter service from sidings, and once you start being aware of it you notice it all over the place. 

Paul

[IanL]

But trains arriving from the sidings to P1 or P3 at Oxford dont show this behaviour, and on approach this train shows the correct  destination on the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System), it only changes from Great Malvern to Not for public use when the train gets to the end of the platform. It does catch a lot of people out especially on a friday afternoon when you get lots of weekend travellers.

[paul7575]

What I meant by 'happens by default' was really a general reply - that a train running as class 5 (ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock)) will trigger the 'not in use' announcement unless the PIS^▸ (Passenger Information System) system is altered from its default operation.  It is a solvable issue, but if they don't intervene the situation does arise, as it does elsewhere than Oxford.

If this train you are highlighting is causing a different apparent operation, it just means they haven't fixed the PIS for it.  It may well happen at the exact platform end simply because for a southbound move into P2 that is where the train happens to be picked up by the train detection.

Paul