Engineering works & longer journeys, why still same cost as normal?

[whole diary]

[Glovidge]

One for all you "insiders"

I am trying to get a ticket for a train on Sunday (Reading to Cardiff) which is going to be over an hour more (at least) than usual due to engineering works. In any normal business a customer would expect some leeway in terms of cost if their product was in some way not available in advance as anticipated (eg restricted viewing at football matches or a concert)

However in the rail industry it seems that the customer is expected to pay the same for journeys that will take an extra hour and inconvenience people. Is this because the passenger will be occupying the seat longer as there can be no rhyme nor reason why on earth I should have to pay extra for a journey which will inconvenience me by at least an hour more than it will on the Monday.

When will the rail operators get their act together and offer discounted fares for journeys affected by planned engineering works?

So I'm getting a coach instead. As it will be cheaper and take less time. Amazing

[matt473]

I think the fact that engineering work is advertised far in advance so people know things are going to take longer or replaced by buses in some areas then I guess they have provided people with plenty of time to make alternative arrangements to travel if they so wish. Very rarely I'd say that people book tickets without it being displayed somehwere that disruption may affect particular journies which may make people wish to reconsider their travel plans. I'm not point blank defending TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) here but it's not as if people aren't aware of disruption so can't make alternative arrangements if they wish. If discounts were to be given for every diversion that takes place leading to longer journey times, should this be the same for roads where people diverted due to road closueres can claim back road tax from the government?

On a side note, if cheap fares where to be offered but required replacement bus service instead of a diverted service taking longer, would you prefer this? I have a feeling that most people would take longer journey times as opposed to cheaper bus replacement service

[Glovidge]

Fair enough but lots of people are unaware that they need to travel until a couple of days/ hours prior to making a journey. Say for example if I went to the ticket office on the day and said I would like a ticket from x to y and the ticket office said there will be a considerable delay on your journey from x to y due to engineering works and you have no alternatives available, how is it fair that the operators still expect the customer to pay full whack?

Over a barrel.

[grahame]

... how is it fair that the operators still expect the customer to pay full whack?

<humour><strong>
Bearing in mind that you are occupying a seat (a very valuable and short-supply commodity in the public transport industry) for longer, surely you should pay more?
</strong></humour>

Sorry - couldn't resist that. But it leads to some interesting thoughts. Full whack on an Intercity train can be 70p / mile,  and on more local services around 25p / mile. As Intercity trains average - say - 100 m.p.h. and locals 50 m.p.h., your intercity seat has an earning capability of 70 pounds per hour, whereas your local train seat can only make 12.50 per hour. Now - let's say that your intercity train has a capacity of 350 people, but your local train can only take 150 and you'll see that the total takings for an intercity train are 24,500 per hour, but for a local train are 1,875 per hour.  OK - lots of wild assumptions there, but you start to see why the operating companies who want to make a living for themselves and their paymasters / shareholders rather like the long distance stuff.

By the way - this may explain why the First Bus from Melksham to Chippenham, which takes twice as long as First train, is also more expensive.

[Milky Bar Kid]

well its a bit like people turning up for planes when the airport is shut due to snow even though its more often than not headline news! People buying tickets on the day are always advised beforehand of disruption on their jouney and considering most fares seem to be advance anyway they are still getting a good deal.

[MarkyMarkD]

By the way - this may explain why the First Bus from Melksham to Chippenham, which takes twice as long as First train, is also more expensive.

Isn't that more likely because:

(1) the train fares are regulated and the bus fares are not; and
(2) people will pay a premium for the bus because it goes more "door-to-door" than the train?

[Chris from Nailsea]

(2) people will pay a premium for the bus because it goes more "door-to-door" than the train?

No, it doesn't.

I wanted to travel from Melksham railway station to Chippenham railway station one day last week - but the First bus doesn't call at Melksham Station, nor does it call at Chippenham railway station.

So instead, I got the First bus from Melksham to Bath (^3.95), and then got on the First train there.

[smokey]

Re Reading to Cardiff, on a walk up ticket the Cost will be the Same on the Sunday, even if the Journey takes an hour longer, but as the train is routed via Gloucester there is additional miles travelled at No extra cost.
At the end of the Day the ticket is for travel from Reading to Cardiff and the train will run (hopefully) to the advertised times.

At least it's a through train without the hassle of changing to a Bus for part of the journey as is happening between Exeter and Plymouth today.

One thing I have become aware off since the end of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)), is that whilst some diversions DO occur it's very much dependent on TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) areas.

Indeed whilst FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will run services via Gloucester when the Severn Tunnel is shut,
and SWT^▸ (South West Trains) will run Exeter-Waterloo services via Southampton when the line is shut Salisbury to Basingstoke,
SWT will NOT run from Yeovil Junction to Salisbury via Westbury if the direct line is closed, yet BR DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains)!

[JayMac]

SWT^▸ (South West Trains) will NOT run from Yeovil Junction to Salisbury via Westbury if the direct line is closed, yet BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains)!

Maybe because in the days of BR, they had a greater pool of drivers and guards to call upon who signed for the diversionary route.

To do so now would require SWT to have staff regularly travel the diversionary route to keep up route knowledge, or to pay FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to supply drivers and guards to 'pilot' when the occasional need arises.

Nowadays, it probably boils down to cost. Providing Rail Replacement Buses maybe a cheaper option than either hiring 'pilots' or training all staff from the relevant depot(s) on the diversionary route.

That said, in recent times, Network Rail have tried, wherever possible to ensure that a diverted journey can be completed wholly by rail.

[Louis94]

SWT^▸ (South West Trains) will NOT run from Yeovil Junction to Salisbury via Westbury if the direct line is closed, yet BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains)!

Hmmmm  Yes they will, they did it last month, and many times before!

[paul7575]

SWT^▸ (South West Trains) will NOT run from Yeovil Junction to Salisbury via Westbury if the direct line is closed, yet BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains)!

That's odd that you think that, given that regular SWT route learning is booked:

5O33 14+00 Salisbury Depot to Yeovil Jct plat 1, arrive15+42 (via Westbury)
5O34 16+09 Yeovil Jct plat 2 to Salisbury Depot, arrive 18+24 (via Westbury)

There's no passenger diversions planned over the next few weekends that I can see, but there have definitely been diversions over the last few months during the Salisbury -Exeter resignalling.

This chap's website includes photos taken on 8th and 22nd of January, for instance:

http://evercreech-junction.weebly.com/january-2012.html

Paul

[paul7575]

SWT^▸ (South West Trains) will NOT run from Yeovil Junction to Salisbury via Westbury if the direct line is closed, yet BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains)!

Maybe because in the days of BR, they had a greater pool of drivers and guards to call upon who signed for the diversionary route.

To do so now would require SWT to have staff regularly travel the diversionary route to keep up route knowledge, or to pay FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to supply drivers and guards to 'pilot' when the occasional need arises.

Nowadays, it probably boils down to cost. Providing Rail Replacement Buses maybe a cheaper option than either hiring 'pilots' or training all staff from the relevant depot(s) on the diversionary route.

That said, in recent times, Network Rail have tried, wherever possible to ensure that a diverted journey can be completed wholly by rail.

None of your reasoning applies in this case however, because smokey is not correct...

Paul