Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital

[whole diary]

[Louis94]

Good heavens, Louis, that's very clever!  I was going to say how would you cover the 1106 ex Paignton as it obvioulsy has a working out of Padd after it arrives at 1444, but you've even thought of that!   Well done - or can somebody out there see a fatal flaw?

Why thank you! 

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

Ah. It's just dawned on me that this would require an extra set, as Louis's plan would mean that a train currently covered in the daily programme would in fact be covered by a set from the previous day  - ie the 1106 from Paignton.

Am I wrong? 

But maybe there are more opportunities to be explored as finishing an HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s daily programme at 1436 (as per Louis's plan, and even at Plymouth) is a bit early, and maybe it could do a couple of extra trips which would allow Louis's basic plan - ie extending 0706 ex Padd to Penzance - work.

But I'm sure FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s expert train programmers - in India, I'm led to understand, although maybe they only do the traincrew programming - have thought of all that.

[Louis94]

Ah. It's just dawned on me that this would require an extra set, as Louis's plan would mean that a train currently covered in the daily programme would in fact be covered by a set from the previous day  - ie the 1106 from Paignton.

Am I wrong? 

But maybe there are more opportunities to be explored as finishing an HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s daily programme at 1436 (as per Louis's plan, and even at Plymouth) is a bit early, and maybe it could do a couple of extra trips which would allow Louis's basic plan - ie extending 0706 ex Padd to Penzance - work.

But I'm sure FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s expert train programmers - in India, I'm led to understand, although maybe they only do the traincrew programming - have thought of all that.

Should not require an extra set, as an extra set would go to Laira in the evenings, and an extra one would go out in the mornings.

1436 terminating service could then be used to form 1A92 (1657 dep from PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains)) and the terminating service that would form it could continue to Penzance, and then come back in service. Another option could be to start the 1A96 1954 EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) - PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) from Plymouth, with the unit connecting at Plymouth instead of Exeter/Taunton (FO)

[JayMac]

Louis94, you seem to have covered most bases pretty well. Dare I suggest you make your observations part of an official response to the Greater Western franchise consultation that is currently ongoing?

You can do this independently to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) or through this forum if you wish.

[Louis94]

Dare I suggest you make your observations part of an official response to the Greater Western franchise consultation that is currently ongoing?

You can do this independently to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) or through this forum if you wish.

Wow, I never throught i'd ever get that suggested to me! 

Not really upto speed with the whole franchise consultation procedure, would you mind explaining how I go about that?!

[JayMac]

A good place to start would be reading this thread and the linked documents:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10037.0

The topic about an earlier arrival into Plymouth itself is one that has already generated opinions generally in favour of such a service. You can of course contact you local MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) (if you live in that neck of the woods) to raise the issue with the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) as part of the franchise consultation.

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

Should not require an extra set, as an extra set would go to Laira in the evenings, and an extra one would go out in the mornings.

1436 terminating service could then be used to form 1A92 (1657 dep from PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains)) and the terminating service that would form it could continue to Penzance, and then come back in service. Another option could be to start the 1A96 1954 EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) - PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) from Plymouth, with the unit connecting at Plymouth instead of Exeter/Taunton (FO)

Surely an extra set at Laira overnight means 1 less somewhere else, which of course means one less service starting up in the morning from Swansea, Bristol or wherever.  We can't conjure up extra HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services in Cornwall without losing out somewhere else.

[Louis94]

Surely an extra set at Laira overnight means 1 less somewhere else, which of course means one less service starting up in the morning from Swansea, Bristol or wherever.  We can't conjure up extra HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services in Cornwall without losing out somewhere else.

Think you were right about the need for an extra set! Just looked at how the start/end arrangements of what I said.
1C73/1A82 start at OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) and End LA
1C79/1A89 start at PM and End SWA^» (Swansea - next trains).

Instead 1C73 would form 1A89 and end Swansea, 1C79 would end LA. So looks like it would require an extra set at Laira, or at OOC (which is more likely), if its possible to get the set off 1C79 back to there in the evening. Could be possible to then speed up the 0706 so it did not call at Newbury, Pewsey and Westbury, this could then improve the arrival time into Plymouth even further, maybe 1020-1030 ish. The Newbury, Pewsey and Westbury stops can then be added into a 0806 to Paignton or maybe a little bit earlier to ensure it can get to Paignton intime for the return working at 1106. Of course, its very easy for me to say this... but it depends on how easy this would be to diagram, I know theres 2 or 3 sets that go out of service after the peak, so surely could use one of these, given 1A82 gets back into London in plenty of time at 1444 for the evening peak! This would then make the service to Exeter hourly 0706 - 1906.

[The SprinterMeister]

Ah. It's just dawned on me that this would require an extra set, as Louis's plan would mean that a train currently covered in the daily programme would in fact be covered by a set from the previous day  - ie the 1106 from Paignton.

Am I wrong? 

But maybe there are more opportunities to be explored as finishing an HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s daily programme at 1436 (as per Louis's plan, and even at Plymouth) is a bit early, and maybe it could do a couple of extra trips which would allow Louis's basic plan - ie extending 0706 ex Padd to Penzance - work.

But I'm sure FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s expert train programmers - in India, I'm led to understand, although maybe they only do the traincrew programming - have thought of all that.

Should not require an extra set, as an extra set would go to Laira in the evenings, and an extra one would go out in the mornings.

1436 terminating service could then be used to form 1A92 (1657 dep from PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains)) and the terminating service that would form it could continue to Penzance, and then come back in service. Another option could be to start the 1A96 1954 EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) - PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) from Plymouth, with the unit connecting at Plymouth instead of Exeter/Taunton (FO)

You should apply for a job with FGW's train planning department. Most impressive! 

[Lee]

From the Plymouth Herald:

Call to lobby Government over faster rail services

Plymouth business leaders are being urged to lobby the Government for better and faster trains to the city.

The call comes as ministers prepare to spell out how rail services to the South West should be delivered over the next 15 years.

The Department for Transport is consulting on the terms for a new Great Western rail franchise after First Group decided to end its franchise three years early. The company is understood to be bidding to win the new, longer-term franchise.

Business leaders, meeting today at the Royal Western Yacht Club in Plymouth, will be asked to write to the department spelling out the city's needs. David Parlby, chief executive of Plymouth Chamber of Commerce, said the city needs:

An extra fast train from London, arriving in Plymouth before 10am.

A three-hour train returning to London around 5pm so people can do a full day's work in the city.

More frequent three-hour trains to London.

Reconfiguration of rolling stock to better suit business needs to give people the ability to work effectively during their journeys with access to WiFi and continuous mobile phone coverage.

Better capacity on local services to relieve overcrowding during rush hours and in summer.

"Even if you are not a regular train user, the impact of improved connectivity will benefit everyone," Mr Parlby said.

Cllr Kevin Wigens, the city's Cabinet member for transport, said: "This is an absolutely critical time for Plymouth to make its case for improved rail services.

"It is of paramount importance that we take this rare opportunity to include improvements to our connectivity."

Speakers at today's presentation and panel discussion include: Chris Irwin, chairman of Travel Watch South West; Clive Perkin, the council's assistant director of transport; Mr Parlby and Mr Wigens.

The new Great Western franchise is due to commence in April 2013 and will be based on the services presently operated by First Great Western.

The company operates 187 trains over 1,300 miles of track and as well as Plymouth serves London, Reading, Bristol, Oxford, Cardiff, Swansea, Exeter, Penzance, Southampton, Portsmouth, Brighton, Newbury, Gloucester, and Hereford and Worcester.

Shortlisted applicants will receive an invitation to tender in May this year and the winning bidder will be announced in December.

Mr Wigens said he was optimistic that the Government would take on board Plymouth's requests.

"In these past six months we have raised the profile of the city's connectivity in Whitehall. We need to get as many of our asks included in the franchise document as we can.

"We know how critical getting the sub-three-hour journey time is for companies and individuals looking to invest in Plymouth."

He said the council was backing proposals for a rail spur from Reading to Heathrow which would improve the journey to the airport for Plymouth travellers.

Philip Heseltine, the council's head of transport strategy, said: "We are very lucky to live and work in such a beautiful part of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). But if we are to survive in business and compete with other major cities we need to ensure that we can be reached easily."

And the Western Morning News:

Rail upgrade is first-class ticket to region's economic prosperity

Improving Plymouth^s rail connectivity is vital for the region argues Neill Mitchell.

Plymouth today is "A City with Ambition" and its strategic growth is enhancing the wider economic performance, wealth creation and employment prospects of Devon and Cornwall.

Whilst it has long been the largest conurbation in the peninsula, the city's character has been transformed in the last decade. It has emerged from a brow-beaten subservience to low-wage manufacturing and grant dependency culture, to a new era as a vibrant university city, green and clean, a centre of excellence for medical research and innovation, marine and nuclear engineering, creative, leisure and lifestyle industries. The defeatism and lethargy of the past has given way to aspiration, overseas corporate control has been replaced by local initiative and institutional employment increasingly by entrepreneurship.

The Plymothians of the 2010s are energetic go-getters, whose drive is benefiting us all as they strive to sharpen the overall competitiveness of the South West and engender a positively cool image for potential domestic and international investors alike.

But, these "go-getters" need to be able to do just that, i.e. go out into the global marketplace and get new business. And, indeed, they also need customers to feel equally inclined to come inward to the region, without undue hassle. Securing such ease of connectivity is the next challenge and, inevitably, following closure of the city's airport in December the focus has now to be upon rail. Especially so as the Great Western Franchise will soon be re-let for the 15 years 2013-2028.

No longer "last past the post" in responding to government consultations, Plymouth City Council has been keeping ahead of the game in preparing for the Department for Transport's Consultation upon the Replacement of the Great Western Rail Franchise, which closes on March 31. Months before the document was released, the city council's officers had already set about engaging nationally-recognised rail consultants to assist in the formulation of a realistic and affordable set of options to present to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).

This early work progressed to the formation of a task force, hardwiring the council in with the university, the Chamber of Commerce and the city's politicians on a cross-party basis. This group was able to apply clear thinking to the preparation of a strategy document, published under the no-nonsense title "Plymouth: The case for better rail services" (see www.plymouth.gov.uk/policyandplanning ).

The largely service-level proposals in this document are relatively modest and decidedly low-cost (projected ^10 million, with an estimated payback of ^94 million a year to the economy) compared with the disproportionately vast rail infrastructure investments earmarked for other parts of the UK. The latter include the ^15 billion London Crossrail project, ^22 billion HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) high speed line from Euston to Birmingham and the North, the ^8 billion electrification of the London to Bristol & SouthWales main line and so on. Yet, the Plymouth plan would iron out many anomalies which presently constrain the city's rail connectivity ^ not least the lack of down trains from London before late morning. The plan also focuses upon the need to accelerate intercity services, providing the shared "2-3-5" target of 2 hours journey time between Paddington and Exeter, 3 hours for Plymouth and 5 hours for Penzance.

Unlike air transport, railways are not corridors which simply link one destination to another, rather they jointly serve huge geographical areas ^ especially so in Devon & Cornwall where we, today, have only the one Great Western main line operating west of Exeter. Thus, although Plymouth has a core population of 250,000 and sustains the wealth of a large surrounding economic catchment, under a total umbrella of some 400,000 (equal to the population of Cornwall), the upgrading of its rail services has the potential to deliver substantive spin-off benefits all the way to Penzance.

It was past initiative and venture capital of the merchants of Plymouth, meeting in its Guildhall in 1834, that first prompted the building of Plymouth, Devonport & Exeter Railway through South Devon (later GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)). It was the importance of the city's port which drove further rail investment during the 20th century and, largely, the regional economic importance of the city which saved the peninsula from the catastrophic loss of its entire rail network ^ as advocated in the Serpell Report upon Railway Finances of 1983.

So, Plymouth is once more championing the case for better rail services ^ for itself as Devon and Cornwall's principal city, for its economic catchment and for the overall 'connectivity benefit' of both counties. Let's hope the rationale and merits of the case which the city is advocating for the new franchise find favour within Whitehall, not just at the Department for Transport but ^ arguably more pertinently ^ also with the Department for Business.

[Lee]

"Plymouth: The case for better rail services" can be found here.

Here is a summary of what they want, and when:

May 2012

Earlier morning arrival in Plymouth on a direct service from London through rescheduling an existing service.

Dec 2013

An additional train providing a 3 hour journey from London to Plymouth arriving at 10.00am and a return 3 hour journey departing Plymouth for London at 4.00pm

Hourly departures from Plymouth and London throughout the day with maximum journey time of 3 hours 15 minutes

Hourly local mainline services stopping at intermediate stations between Penzance and Exeter to relieve overcrowding during the peaks and over the summer months

A refurbishment programme to reconfigure passenger accommodation to better suit business needs including WIFI and continuous mobile coverage.

Dec 2018

2 departures from London and Plymouth during the morning peak are speeded up to take no more than 3 hours

4 departures from London and Plymouth during the afternoon peak are speeded up to take no more than 3 hours

These services are in addition to existing services which make the journey in 3 hours. They require additional trains to maintain service levels at stations between Exeter and London no longer served by fast services to and from Plymouth

Upgrade of local mainline services replacing existing Class 150 rolling stock with ^Networker Turbo^ Class 165 Diesel Multiple Units made available following the electrification programme.

By 2019

Complete feasibility and groundwork with a commitment to extend electrification of railway services to Plymouth.

By 2024

As above but replacement of the existing High Speed Trains with new trains capable of achieving journey times between Plymouth and London within 2 hours 45 minutes. We have completed a full economic appraisal of these improvements.

An independent economic study has assessed that these improvements will bring enormous economic benefits to Plymouth, the far South West and nationally - ^94 million a year. The case for improved rail connectivity is strengthened if the wider economic benefits are properly understood and analysed.

The Government^s agenda is about economic growth where investment generates wealth. Investing in these faster journeys by rail is good for the South West economy and benefits the whole UK^▸ (United Kingdom) economy.

Plymouth is doing much to achieve growth - just think what we could achieve with better rail connectivity.

[Lee]

Interesting set of views reported by the Plymouth Herald here, including (as I rather suspected there might be) some dissent from further up the line...

Why Plymouth needs a better railway service

Less money is spent on the Great Western rail network than in any other part of the country, says the leader of a powerful rail lobby.

"We have to get across to MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) that we have been hard done by," Chris Irwin, chairman of Travel Watch South West, said in Plymouth yesterday.

Mr Irwin was speaking to business leaders, who are being urged to lobby the Government for better and faster trains.

He said the South West had been an area of enormous population growth and a 70per cent increase in train travel since 1995.

But Network Rail spent less on infrastructure and maintenance in the Western area than it did in any other part of England and Wales.

He warned that there could be a two-tier rail service in the West, with planned electrification on the London-Bristol-Cardiff corridor while the rest of the region lagged behind.

Mr Irwin was speaking as ministers prepare to spell out how rail services to the South West should be delivered over the next 15 years.

With rail operator First Great Western due to relinquish its franchise next year, the Government is seeking the views of councils, MPs and organisations.

He told a meeting at the Royal Western Yacht Club that Plymouth needed to work with the rest of the South West to ensure the Government got a single set of messages.

"Pull together and we might get somewhere."

But Mr Irwin urged the Plymouth rail task force not to try to tie the hands of a future train operator to any "wish list". Reliability and customer satisfaction were more important than journey times, he said.

Mr Irwin called for "simple" improvements to the track and signalling, which he said would deliver improved journey times.

These included "straightening a few sharp bends" and closing level crossings that caused hold-ups.

"At the moment you have a second-rate service on a second-rate line. Plymouth deserves better."

He praised Plymouth for its co-ordinated response to the Government's consultation, and said the city was "showing the way and others are being caused to follow".

Mr Irwin said he understood that five companies were interested in bidding to run the new franchise form April 2013: First Group, Stagecoach, Arriva, the German-owned Arriva, National Express, and the Spanish operator RENFE^▸ (Spanish National Railways (Red Nacional de Ferrocarriles Espanoles)).

He said the last time that rail franchise was issued, in 2005, the outcome was "pretty disastrous". It was expensive for First Great Western, and expensive for the Government to put right.

"We must not see the 2005 mistake happen again."

He said the new franchise needed to ensure there was a "real improvement in the passenger experience. Trains need to be punctual and reliable, you need to be able to get a seat, and you need value for money."

He said billions of pounds were involved in the rail franchise and Plymouth needed to ensure it was in the forefront of ministers' minds.

Mr Irwin warned that much of the next ten years would see major rail disruption because of electrification of the London-Bristol-Cardiff corridor and Crossrail in London.

Ian Jackson from city firm Argans Ltd, which provides satellite data services for customers including the European Space Agency, said: "We used to use the airport regularly, up to Gatwick and then on to places like Rome. Now we have to take the train, and it's in our interests to make it as good as possible.

"It's not just the journey time, it's the level of service. I can't work if I haven't got WiFi."

Guy Walker, chairman of the Plymouth Chamber of Commerce transport group, said: "We are at the point where we are going to have a major influence on the specifications of the rail franchise."

PLYMOUTH'S FUTURE MUST NOT BE STIFLED

Plymouth is "a city on the move" and must not be stifled by lack of connectivity, business leaders were told yesterday, Keith Rossiter writes.

They were urged to lobby the Government to make the case for a better train service.

Plymouth has the poorest rail, road and air links of the country's 67 biggest cities, Philip Heseltine, the council's head of transport strategy, told yesterday's meeting.

The Department for Transport is consulting on the terms for a new Great Western rail franchise after First Group decided to end its franchise three years early. The company is understood to be bidding to win the new, longer-term franchise.

Plymouth's rail task force, which brings together the city council, chamber of commerce and MPs, has drawn up a list of the city's key transport needs.

These include: a fast train from London, arriving in Plymouth before 10am, with a return service at around 5pm; more three-hour trains to London; and WiFi and better mobile phone coverage on trains to allow people to work.

Mr Heseltine said the objectives for the region were: two-hour journeys from Exeter; three hours from Plymouth; and five hours from Penzance.

Much-needed improvements to the track and signalling would have to come from Network Rail and not the franchise holder, he said.

Cllr Kevin Wigens, the city's Cabinet member for transport, said: "The things we are asking for are realistic, achievable and affordable."

He said that winning improvements to the city's rail service was the most important issue the city faced.

"It is close to a once in a generation opportunity to shape rail services to Plymouth and the region.

"It is totally unacceptable to me that our earliest direct arrival from London is about 11.20am."

He said he believed faster journeys was at least as important as reliability.

"Plymouth is the key driver for jobs and investment in the region, and rail connectivity to the capital is absolutely fundamental to that," Mr Wigens said.

Clive Perkin, assistant director for transport at the city council, said the strength of Plymouth's case was that it benefited the whole of the far South West.

He said people had to be realistic and not hope for electrification of the line to Plymouth. But electrification elsewhere could release more trains for use on the Plymouth lines.

He said there were two ways to achieve the shorter journeys ^ through faster trains, or fewer stops ^ but that was an argument to be had on another day.

Mr Perkin said there was also a need for a much better commuter network.

Cllr Tudor Evans, leader of the Labour group on the council, backed the city's submission to the Government.

He added: "We really should be asking for a rail head into Exeter airport.

"At this stage we need to make the case for the infrastructure, and it's even more important now that Plymouth Airport has closed."

Mr Evans said he and the city's Labour group were "entirely supportive" of the rest of the case from the task force.

Mr Perkin told him the city was having discussions with Devon County Council over plans to create a rail link to the airport.

"It is part of the debate we are having with our neighbours."

Jeremy Fox of Plymouth-based Claro Learning Ltd, said he travelled all over the country visiting clients.

"Travelling on First Great Western every week is a kind of punishment," he said.

Philip Hamilton, former managing director of Wrigley's in Plymouth, said that when he first came to Plymouth 25 years ago "there were always two and a half to three-hour trains".

He said the problem started when the Government introduced penalties for lack of punctuality and the train operators changed their timetables in response.

The city council and the Chamber of Commerce were urged to "keep an air service on the radar", despite last December's closure of the City Airport.

"Reducing the journey to London by 15 to 30 minutes isn't going to deliver the city's aspiration for 42,000 new jobs", a member of the audience said.

CRITICISM AS PLYMOUTH GOES OUT ON A LIMB IN CALL FOR IMPROVED RAIL LINKS

Plymouth has been accused of going out on a limb with calls for more faster trains to London, Nick Lester, Parliamentary Correspondent, writes.

The city's bid for more fast trains "goes right across what everyone else is trying to do," Torbay Lib Dem MP Adrian Sanders said.

Increasing the frequency of the three-hour service would mean fewer high-speed trains stopping at Totnes, Tiverton Parkway, and Taunton, to shave time off the journey, he said.

MPs from across the region met to agree a shared list of demands they want to secure in the new 15-year Great Western rail franchise.

These included the roll-out of electrification, measures to speed up the track, and tackling future overcrowding.

"There is a lot of anger that Plymouth has gone out on a limb when we need to be united," Mr Sanders said.

Alison Seabeck, Labour MP for Plymouth Moor View, who arranged the regional cross-party event, said: "The aim of the meeting was not to fight about local issues but to come up with some over-arching key issues."

TRAINS FACTFILE

Eight out of the 10 most crowded trains into London at peak times are arrivals at Paddington Station, the Great Western terminal.

70% ^ the increase in South West train travel since 1995.

187 trains operated by First Great Western.

54 Intercity 125 train sets operate on the Western network.

1,580 train services each week day.

66million passenger journeys a year.

17 million train miles a year.

4,800 employees work for First Great Western.

72per cent of train miles in the Great Western area are operated by First Great Western. Other franchise holders include CrossCountry Trains.

First Great Western operates on 1,300 miles of track in the region, across towns and cities including Plymouth, Bristol, Oxford, Cardiff, Swansea, Exeter, Penzance, Southampton, Portsmouth, Brighton, Newbury, Gloucester, and Hereford and Worcester.

^694million: First great Western revenues in the last financial year.

^250million: premium paid by FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to the Department for Transport.

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

Some HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets will of course become available when the Class 180's take over on Cotswold services later thisn year - what are the chances of some of these being used to improve W of E sevices? Or is there some other plan for them?

[IndustryInsider]

The 180's are only taking over Turbo operated services, as far as I'm aware all current HST^▸ (High Speed Train) operated services will remain HST's.

[Lee]

From the Western Morning News:

Government urged to ^go electric^ for rail

Westcountry MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) have joined forces to press the Government for electric trains and to end the over-crowding blighting rail services in the region.

Members from across Devon and Cornwall met in West-minster to agree a shared list of demands they want to secure in the new 15-year Great Western rail franchise.

The existing contract, run by First Great Western, has left the region with the oldest mainline fleet, the most expensive fares and the highest levels of over-crowding.

Alison Seabeck MP, who organised the summit, said there is a risk of the region looking ^parochial^ if all members pushed for separate improvements without an ^over-arching^ proposal.

The Labour MP of Plymouth Moor View said: ^We agreed that we can use our collective voice to say to the Government this is what is important to the region as whole.^

Last year, First Great Western, which runs the London Paddington to Penzance mainline and branchline services in Devon and Cornwall, was named as having the most overcrowded carriages in the country.

Official figures revealed an early morning service from Reading to Paddington at times held nearly twice its standard-class capacity.

Another survey, in 2010, showed seven out of the ten most over-crowded services were on First routes.

While a seat is most unlikely on commuter links into the capital, inter-city services and branchlines in Devon and Cornwall are also under-strain as the popularity of rail grows among workers, students and tourists.

Mrs Seabeck said an ^obligation^ to ease over-crowding should be written into the franchise.

Another demand is for the Government to commit to a ^rolling^ programme of upgrading South West lines to run electric trains, which are more reliable than the 1970s diesels available.

Ministers have committed to electrifying the line to Bristol and Wales, but not the other mainline serving Taunton, Exeter, Plymouth and through to Cornwall.

Measures to speed up the track and the economic impact of rail decisions Government makes were also discussed.

Individual MPs are also likely to peel off from the main group to champion issues particular to their part of the franchise area, which includes a vast swathe of the South West and Wales.

Cornwall MPs have already made it clear that losing the overnight sleeper service to Penzance, which was at risk of being ditched under the 2006 franchise, would be unacceptable.

MPs from Plymouth and the surrounding area are calling for more fast three-hour trains between the Westcountry^s biggest city and London.

But this would mean fewer of the high-speed trains stopping at stations such as Totnes, Tiverton Parkway, and Taunton, to shave time off the journey. Liberal Democrat MP for Torbay Adrian Sanders is critical: ^It goes right across what everyone else is trying to do. The answer is to cut everyone^s journey times.^