Potential bidders for the next Greater Western franchise

[whole diary]

[The SprinterMeister]

When electrification is complete in 2017 and the new 4 trains per hour between Bristol Temple Meads and London Paddington, surely though  two of these services per hour will be proper express/limited stop?  I'd imagine that 2 services per hour will probably retain the familiar Bath Spa>Chippenham>Swindon>Didcot Parkway(1 service per hour)>Reading>London Paddington calling pattern.  But for the 2 additional services one of them could run non-stop to Reading from Temple Meads, and the other could call Bristol Parkway and then non-stop to London Paddington.

I'm sure I read somewhere that what I have highlighted is in fact going to be the plan when IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) and electrification comes to fruition. Lord only knows how they will path the things through the pinch points but thats the plan. And thats DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) aspiration and not train operator specific. Two of the four trains per hour from Bristol to Padd are in fact going to run via Parkway / Hullavington anyway and not via Bath.

Found it;

Last time I checked, 1tph will be Bristol TM^‡(resolve) - Padd non stop. 1 tph Bristol TM, Bristol Pway, Reading, Padd. The remaining two services per hour will be as now. The Swansea services will run Reading to Newport non stop as well.

[Btline]

^   Fast to Swansea calling at Reading, Newport, Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Port Talbot Parkway, Neath and Swansea
^   Cheltenham Spa services calling at Reading, Swindon and Gloucester (minor stations between Swindon and Cheltenham served by local trains if feasible)
^   Semi-fast to Cardiff Central calling at Reading, Didcot Parkway, Swindon, Bristol Parkway, Newport and Cardiff Central
^   Semi-fast to Bristol Temple Meads calling at Reading, Didcot Parkway, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads
^   Fast to Bristol Temple Meads calling at Reading, Chippenham, Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads (if any service is going to pass non-stop through Reading, I suggest this one)
^   To Bristol Temple Meads calling at Reading, Swindon, Bristol Parkway and Bristol Temple Meads
^   As above minus Swindon stop
^   Semi-fast to Oxford calling at Slough, Reading, Didcot Parkway and Oxford (perhaps with one or two extra stops between Reading and Paddington)
^   Semi-fast to Worcester/Hereford, calling at Slough, Reading, Didcot Parkway, Oxford and Cotswolds line stations
^   Semi-Fast to Westbury (with extensions to Exeter) (serving all stations not covered by sufficient local trains, given the following)
^   To Plymouth (and beyond) running non-stop to Reading. From there Westbury stops might be provided in some (perhaps alternate) hours and perhaps occasional Newbury stops, but otherwise non-stop Reading to Taunton also.

Um, let axe the Didcot stops on Cotswold trains please!

[inspector_blakey]

It would be very interesting and a refreshing change for a new operator to take over. Will be interesting to see a new livery and company name, and to see how they would change the timetables, including hopefully bringing back the London-Bristol express services.

I'm sure that's uppermost in the government's mind: introducing a new operator so that a new set of liveries, uniforms and company names will keep the trainspotters amused. And as for this "Bristol-London express" service that you bang on about at every given opportunity, how on earth does it make sense for any operator to leave behind customers wanting to use the service at stations like Chippenham and Swindon to keep a few gricers with stopwatches on board amused? Mark Hopwood has stated on the record (although I forget where, forgive me) that although he can understand the aspiration, it simply wouldn't be practical.

Not quite sure how you'd have coped in the days of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)), XPT, when liveries, uniforms etc remained constant for years and years.

[Btline]

Aren't they moving towards the ScotRail model, where a standard livery is applied, and the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) just slap their logo on?

Isn't that why EC have painted their trains grey?

[inspector_blakey]

I'm not aware of the existence of any such policy - think you must have dreamt it. However in many cases where there's an imminent change of franchise trains will be repainted in a "neutral" livery to make it easy for the new franchisee to apply their colours. East Coast is meant to be a temporary measure until the franchise is re-privatized, hence most repaints have been into a neutral-ish grey livery with limited branding. The same logic was applied whilst the SRA^» (Strategic Rail Authority - about) was operating South Eastern Trains, and to the current Abellio Greater Anglia franchise which only lasts a matter of months before a longer term deal is let.

[The SprinterMeister]

I'm not aware of the existence of any such policy - think you must have dreamt it. However in many cases where there's an imminent change of franchise trains will be repainted in a "neutral" livery to make it easy for the new franchisee to apply their colours.

The FGW^▸ (First Great Western) West 150/1 units which have received simple paint based liveries have done so because paint is considerably less expensive to apply, particularly with liveries based on on or two colours. It also produces a much tidier, cleaner looking vehicle which maintains a higher standard of finish far longer than those appalling Local Lines vynils which are already looking shabby. Vynils also conceal corrosion issues extremely well as was found with the ex NEx / Wessex Trains 150/2's. In short, Vinyls are a no brainer on older stock.

I see someone has found a 'Heart of Wessex' vynil and stuck it on the side of one of the 150/1's. A reminder of the rusty past.....

[The SprinterMeister]

It would be very interesting and a refreshing change for a new operator to take over. Will be interesting to see a new livery and company name, and to see how they would change the timetables, including hopefully bringing back the London-Bristol express services.

I'm sure that's uppermost in the government's mind: introducing a new operator so that a new set of liveries, uniforms and company names will keep the trainspotters amused.

Quite. Livery froth is not a good and proper reason to support a change of franchise operator.

I would like to know what the maintainance depot strategies of each potential franchise operator are. First quickly removed DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) maintainance from Canton Car Sheds and built up facilites at SPM^▸ (St Philip's Marsh (Bristol depot)) and Exeter as a very positive first step. This gave First directo control of its DMU maintainance. National Express were happy to subcontract maintainance to ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) at Canton Car Sheds when they ran Wessex Trains and Arriva obviously operate Canton Car Sheds. Any move to take GW^▸ (Great Western) DMU maintainance back to Canton Car Sheds must be regarded as a very retrograde and backward step.,

[inspector_blakey]

The appalling state in which National Express handed over the "west" DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) fleet at the end of the Wessex franchise would be reason enough for me to feel very nervous about their potential stewardship of the entire GW^▸ (Great Western) area.

[The SprinterMeister]

The appalling state in which National Express handed over the "west" DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) fleet at the end of the Wessex franchise would be reason enough for me to feel very nervous about their potential stewardship of the entire GW^▸ (Great Western) area.

I have kept some pictures on file to remind me how bad some of the actually 150/2's got, not that I need any reminding. Reason enough not to want NEx anywhere near the GW. I don't think 'Appalling' covers it adequately to be honest.

[XPT]

It would be very interesting and a refreshing change for a new operator to take over. Will be interesting to see a new livery and company name, and to see how they would change the timetables, including hopefully bringing back the London-Bristol express services.

I'm sure that's uppermost in the government's mind: introducing a new operator so that a new set of liveries, uniforms and company names will keep the trainspotters amused. And as for this "Bristol-London express" service that you bang on about at every given opportunity, how on earth does it make sense for any operator to leave behind customers wanting to use the service at stations like Chippenham and Swindon to keep a few gricers with stopwatches on board amused? Mark Hopwood has stated on the record (although I forget where, forgive me) that although he can understand the aspiration, it simply wouldn't be practical.

Not quite sure how you'd have coped in the days of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)), XPT, when liveries, uniforms etc remained constant for years and years.

What I'm saying is that no the most important factor in the new franchise is not a change of livery and company name.  But I am saying that it would be interesting and indeed a refreshing change for a new operator and new liveried trains.  After First Great Western has been with us for quite some years now, especially on the mainline routes out of London Paddington.

I remember well and have fond memories of the good ol' days of BR by the way.  Very much missed.

Whilst from a rail journey enthusiast's point of view it would be brilliant if we were to see the return of the limited stop/express services between Bristol(Temple Meads) and London Paddington again.  It does indeed make for a far more relaxing and comfortable journey to be stopping at only one or two intermediate stops enroute rather than this faffing about stopping every 10-15 minutes between Bristol and Reading(yes I know, for the services that don't stop at Didcot Parkway there is a half hour duration between Swindon and Reading).  I've even heard non rail-enthusiast people comment on this too.  But it's not just about that.  As others have commented on this thread regarding this issue too.  The current Bristol Temple Meads-London Paddington(and vice versa) services are no longer the express services they should be, and are more like long distance commuter services.    Board a Bristol/Cardiff/Swansea service out of Paddington after 3:30pm on a weekday and mostly the passengers onboard will be commuters heading home to Reading, Didcot, and Swindon.  And many passengers for Bristol, Newport, Cardiff, etc are left standing for the first hour of the journey!

As forum members such as John R and Rhydgaled have very sensibly suggested.  Some peak time services between London Paddington and Bristol(and onto Weston-Super Mare and Taunton), and South Wales should have stops such as Reading, Didcot Parkway and Swindon cut.  And additionally new services between Swindon and London Paddington to serve primarily the commuters to/from London.  I'm sure it would be possible to path two such services per hour in each direction.  This would then help segregate all the commuters and the long distance non-commuter passengers travelling to places like Chippenham, Bath, Bristol, Weston-Super-Mare, Newport, Cardiff, Swansea.

As for leaving behind passengers at Chippenham, I wouldn't be in favour of that.  Personally I'd like to see such services as London Paddington>Chippenham>Bath Spa>Bristol Temple Meads.  I'd certainly retain two services per hour between Bath, Chippenham and London. 

Mark Hopwood at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) may well think it's impractical to implement such changes, but perhaps another managing director of the possible new operator taking over the franchise may take a different view?

Whatever happens, bring on 2017 and electrification and the new 4 trains per hour between Bristol Temple Meads and London Paddington, where we'll at long last see the true limited stop/express/non-stop services back again.  I'll be travelling on those services. 

[XPT]

As for calling patterns on Intercity routes from Paddington, I suggested the following (hourly) services in my responce to the franchise consultation:

^   Fast to Swansea calling at Reading, Newport, Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Port Talbot Parkway, Neath and Swansea
^   Cheltenham Spa services calling at Reading, Swindon and Gloucester (minor stations between Swindon and Cheltenham served by local trains if feasible)
^   Semi-fast to Cardiff Central calling at Reading, Didcot Parkway, Swindon, Bristol Parkway, Newport and Cardiff Central
^   Semi-fast to Bristol Temple Meads calling at Reading, Didcot Parkway, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads
^   Fast to Bristol Temple Meads calling at Reading, Chippenham, Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads (if any service is going to pass non-stop through Reading, I suggest this one)
^   To Bristol Temple Meads calling at Reading, Swindon, Bristol Parkway and Bristol Temple Meads
^   As above minus Swindon stop
^   Semi-fast to Oxford calling at Slough, Reading, Didcot Parkway and Oxford (perhaps with one or two extra stops between Reading and Paddington)
^   Semi-fast to Worcester/Hereford, calling at Slough, Reading, Didcot Parkway, Oxford and Cotswolds line stations
^   Semi-Fast to Westbury (with extensions to Exeter) (serving all stations not covered by sufficient local trains, given the following)
^   To Plymouth (and beyond) running non-stop to Reading. From there Westbury stops might be provided in some (perhaps alternate) hours and perhaps occasional Newbury stops, but otherwise non-stop Reading to Taunton also.

Excellent and sensible suggestions there.  Let's hope they take note and give it some good consideration!

[The SprinterMeister]

It would be very interesting and a refreshing change for a new operator to take over. Will be interesting to see a new livery and company name.

I'm sure that's uppermost in the government's mind: introducing a new operator so that a new set of liveries, uniforms and company names will keep the trainspotters amused.

What I'm saying is that no the most important factor in the new franchise is not a change of livery and company name.  But I am saying that it would be interesting and indeed a refreshing change for a new operator and new liveried trains.  After First Great Western has been with us for quite some years now, especially on the mainline routes out of London Paddington.

But secretly your bored with Dark Blue and Neon Squiggles and hanker for something else to keep your 'red pen' amused. 

However repainting rolling stock (or more usually these days sticking garishly coloured Vynil on haphazardly all over the bodywork) and changing all the uniforms for another ill fitting offering from Flanagan and Allen just because a franchise has changed owners is just wasting money. Money that should be spent on more important things. Trains dont go any better just because you stick another livery on them or stick lime green ties on the staff. Only fools believe that.

There is an old saying that holds true regarding 'Better the Devil you know'. And you'd be surprised how many people who work for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) actually think that. During 2005 I wanted First to win the franchise. And during 2012, seven years further down the track I still do.

Mark Hopwood at FGW may well think it's impractical to implement such changes, but perhaps another managing director of the possible new operator taking over the franchise may take a different view?

I expect if Mark Hopwood thought it was feasible to run services rightaway through Reading and lay on extra services for the commuters with the existing infrastructure and rolling stock he would have done so by now. Anyone who uses the services on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) will tell you Reading and the approaches each end are the pinch point. So the services booked to run rightaway through Reading will take their turn in the queue at Kennet Bridge and Tilehurst along with the services booked to call at Reading. As I understand it the through road is finishing anyway as part of the Reading remodelling. You might of course get some doughnut who's never been near the GWML come in with a new TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) and tell you their going to do it but until Reading is sorted it isnt happening.

[Sapperton Tunnel]

As for calling patterns on Intercity routes from Paddington, I suggested the following (hourly) services in my responce to the franchise consultation:

^   Fast to Swansea calling at Reading, Newport, Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Port Talbot Parkway, Neath and Swansea
^   Cheltenham Spa services calling at Reading, Swindon and Gloucester (minor stations between Swindon and Cheltenham served by local trains if feasible)
^   Semi-fast to Cardiff Central calling at Reading, Didcot Parkway, Swindon, Bristol Parkway, Newport and Cardiff Central
^   Semi-fast to Bristol Temple Meads calling at Reading, Didcot Parkway, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads
^   Fast to Bristol Temple Meads calling at Reading, Chippenham, Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads (if any service is going to pass non-stop through Reading, I suggest this one)
^   To Bristol Temple Meads calling at Reading, Swindon, Bristol Parkway and Bristol Temple Meads
^   As above minus Swindon stop
^   Semi-fast to Oxford calling at Slough, Reading, Didcot Parkway and Oxford (perhaps with one or two extra stops between Reading and Paddington)
^   Semi-fast to Worcester/Hereford, calling at Slough, Reading, Didcot Parkway, Oxford and Cotswolds line stations
^   Semi-Fast to Westbury (with extensions to Exeter) (serving all stations not covered by sufficient local trains, given the following)
^   To Plymouth (and beyond) running non-stop to Reading. From there Westbury stops might be provided in some (perhaps alternate) hours and perhaps occasional Newbury stops, but otherwise non-stop Reading to Taunton also.

Sorry, but it covenanted into the sale of the land between Robert Gordon (Squire of Kemble) and the Cheltenham and Great Western Union Rly Co that all trains are to call at Kemble, so lay off with this minor stations lark!!

Admittedly, I believe the last precedent on this type of contract clause was the closure of Badminton Station, but I wonder if it would happen today if they tried?

[Rhydgaled]

Sorry, but it covenanted into the sale of the land between Robert Gordon (Squire of Kemble) and the Cheltenham and Great Western Union Rly Co that all trains are to call at Kemble, so lay off with this minor stations lark!!

Oh, didn't know that. Anyway, what I mean there is that the London services wouldn't call at the stations between Swindon and Gloucester to speed them up and there'd be an hourly all stops service from Swindon to Cheltenham (or further up) to serve the other stations.

Some of the calling patterns there are influenced by my desire to save IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) guage clearance costs by using Intercity 225s beyond Cardiff. Swansea, Carmarthen and Pembroke Dock (the latter two with a diesel loco taking replacing the class 91 beyond Swansea) alone wouldn't use enough of them, so there's a Bristol fast (via Bath) for IC225s to operate that wouldn't call at Reading if passing non-stop through Reading is allowed  and I tried to keep down the number of stops on the Cheltenhams so that they could be IC225 operated (instead of the Bristols) to save IEP clearance from Swindon to Cheltenham.

[Sapperton Tunnel]

Sorry, but it covenanted into the sale of the land between Robert Gordon (Squire of Kemble) and the Cheltenham and Great Western Union Rly Co that all trains are to call at Kemble, so lay off with this minor stations lark!!

Oh, didn't know that. Anyway, what I mean there is that the London services wouldn't call at the stations between Swindon and Gloucester to speed them up and there'd be an hourly all stops service from Swindon to Cheltenham (or further up) to serve the other stations.

Some of the calling patterns there are influenced by my desire to save IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) guage clearance costs by using Intercity 225s beyond Cardiff. Swansea, Carmarthen and Pembroke Dock (the latter two with a diesel loco taking replacing the class 91 beyond Swansea) alone wouldn't use enough of them, so there's a Bristol fast (via Bath) for IC225s to operate that wouldn't call at Reading if passing non-stop through Reading is allowed  and I tried to keep down the number of stops on the Cheltenhams so that they could be IC225 operated (instead of the Bristols) to save IEP clearance from Swindon to Cheltenham.

I understand the desire for faster (London) Swindon Cheltenham services by missing out the Kemble, Stroud and Stonehouse stops, but you may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. From the station usage figures posted elsewhere in the coffee shop, Kemble has about 300,000 passengers a year and Stroud some 400,000. I helped out in the Kemble booking office in the 1970s and early 80s and the proportion of 1st Class passengers paying full fare out of the total number of tickets sold was said to be the highest in the country. It was not unusual to take ^900 for the '9am' alone when average wages were ^30 per week. Throughout the day 80% of all tickets sold were to London and whilst I have no modern day information I don't think it is a lot different, albeit with more season and advance ticket holders. Making Kemble, Stroud and Stonehouse passengers change at Swindon would be a retrograde step and I doubt revenue loss would be made up by additional passengers at Gloucester or Cheltenham attracted by faster journey times. Slicker working when reversing at Gloucester would be more beneficial.

I would be interested in understanding the clearance work for IEPs from Swindon to Cheltenham. The line was laid out to broadgauge and the current tracks follow the same solum, so I am not sure where the pinch points would be. The Platforms are straight enough so I cannot see any side-swipe from the longer, thinner carriages. Presumably the only real issue is Stonehouse with its two carriage length platforms which really could do with lengthening. I expect Network Rail would charge about ^10 million to do that - my builder said he would do the pair for ^75k!!